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Corroboration / lost in censuses / which certs to order?

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  • Corroboration / lost in censuses / which certs to order?

    Hi, me again. It's another tome so I'll bold the main questions, if you don't mind

    I'm just about to order up some certs from the GRO and would appreciate some help about whether you think I'm ordering the right (= most likely) certs

    My other paternal gt grandmother was Elizabeth Agnes Miles, father James Miles, a refreshment caterer, and living in Caledonia St, Islington at the time of her marriage to my gt grandfather, John Henry Gilkes on 30 Mar 1895. So far so good.

    I have found a 1901 census for James Miles, refreshment caterer of Caledonia St, (RG13/185 folio ? p 8 [incidentally, if I've saved off the images as here, where on the image do I find the folio no.?]) with his wife Martha (born Dover) and younger sons, William and Sidney.

    I've also found an 1881 census for James Miles, coffee stall keeper, wife Martha born Dover, with a whole host of children including Elizabeth (RG11/399 folio ? p 40). The eldest child, Thomas, is 17 in 1881. 1871 shows the same family, with Elizabeth aged 2 (RG10/265 folio ? p 40)

    I've not been able to find the family in either 1861 or 1891, however - can anyone help?


    So now I'm thinking it would be useful to get a birth certificate for Elizabeth and marriage cert for James and Martha.

    Re the marriage, of course there are lots of marriages of various James Mileses, but only 1 I've found to a Martha (Martha Harriet Haley) Q4 1860 Shoreditch 1c 323, although it would make James only about 16 at the time of his marriage. Before I shell out my hard-earned, do you think this is the most likely bet? Or can anyone else find a more likely one?

    Re the birth, Elizabeth gave her age as 24 at the time of her marriage. Along with various census ages, this gives a dob of 1869-71. I've found births for 2 Elizabeth Mileses with Agnes in their name born around the right time:

    Elizabeth Agnes M Miles, born Poplar (censuses all give pob as Islington) Q4 1869 1c 620

    Agnes Elizabeth Miles, born Islington Q2 1869 1b 285

    Any other Elizabeth Mileses born around the right time are either way out of area and/or have no Agnes in their name

    I'm inclined to think it's more likely that her names were mixed up on birth or marriage than that the pob was wrong and hence to order the Islington cert - would you agree?

    Thanks a million again in advance!

  • #2
    1891 census
    RG12; Piece: 153; Folio 98; Page 6
    transcribed as Mills

    - if you click on View REcord on Ancestry, you will find the piece/folio/page number at the bottom of the page, just underneath the SAVE button.
    - Ancestry.co.uk
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Pipemma....Personally I`d go for the Islington one, as that was in the 2nd qtr of the year and will make her age match better for the census returns, hopefully if it is the correct one the address may match where they were living in 1871. I would hold off on the marraige cert. until I`d seen the birth cert, you don`t want to waste money on the "wrong" James and martha. But remember elizabeth may not have been registered at all, as it wasn`t compulory until 1875.

      Nicky

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      • #4
        Elaine, yes I know, but I have the images saved off on my pooter and couldn't find 1871, 1881 and 1901 again on ancestry to do that :( Thanks for finding 1891 for me though ------>

        Originally posted by nickyinsunnysussex View Post
        But remember elizabeth may not have been registered at all, as it wasn`t compulory until 1875.

        Nicky
        Huh? Thought it was mandatory from 1540 via the church and 1837 via civil registration?

        BTW so far I've only found one James/Martha marriage, although there are a couple in around 1862/1863 where 2 men and only 1 woman are listed on the page.
        Last edited by Pipemma; 30-12-08, 19:39.

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        • #5
          Civil registration came in in 1837 but the onus was on the registrar to record things. After 1875 the onus was on the parent to register the birth. That said, I've found all my relatives' births registered right back to 1837.

          Before that, baptisms were registered and sometimes birth dates were included in the baptism register. But not every baby was baptised although I think the parents could be fined.
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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          • #6
            Can´t see the family in 1861 but at that time it looks as if they were in Islington at that time and apparently all of Islington East is missing!
            Elaine







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            • #7
              I would expect to find a marriage shortly before Thomas' birth c. 1864. Not sure how many Marthas born in Dover c. 1842 either.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                I would expect to find a marriage shortly before Thomas' birth c. 1864. Not sure how many Marthas born in Dover c. 1842 either.
                Yes, so would I, and James would be very young to marry in 1860, but then I have a sth-gt grandfather on the other side who married for the firs time at 16 so it's possible...

                Thanks for clarifying about the 1875 - I hadn't realised the onus had changed. I did, of course, realise that pre 1837 was dependent on whether and when a baptism actually took place

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                  Can´t see the family in 1861 but at that time it looks as if they were in Islington at that time and apparently all of Islington East is missing!
                  Oh great :roll: Ancestry problem or Blitz problem do you think?

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                  • #10
                    Records probably didn´t survive.

                    There is a marriage on freeBMD for

                    James Miles - Stepney 1c1050 Dec 1864
                    to Martha Selina Nichols or Sarah Eliz Stutchbury

                    .. but as Nell said, probably best to get a BC first which will give you mother´s maiden name.
                    Elaine







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                    • #11
                      OK, that's a good plan then - and saves a bit of dosh for now too. A plan with no drawbacks

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                      • #12
                        It's not down to Ancestry for once, Pipemma. I went to the FRC to look up some of mine from that area and the original records just don't exist...

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                        • #13
                          Thanks all!

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