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Having a lot of trouble with my Great grandparents marriage. Can anyone help?

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  • Having a lot of trouble with my Great grandparents marriage. Can anyone help?

    Hello,

    My name is Sandra and I'm new to researching my family tree. I have been trying to find the marrriage of my great grandparents Frederick Chapman and Ellen Chapman, late Younger, formerly Edmonds. The names have been confirmed by my grandfathers birth certificate, and that of his siblings. They all say the same.

    My great grandmother had two children from her previous marriage, and they were called Henry, and Ellen Younger. My great Grandfather had also been married previously and had three daughters (Annie c1878, Catherine c1880, and Rosa c1881 - 1883. His first wife was Henrietta Sells, and she died in 1883. Together Frederick and Ellen had 5 children Elizabeth c1891, George c1894, James (My Grandfather 1895), Dan c1897, and May c1900.

    In the 1891 Census my Great Grandfather was Lodging in Camberwell, and was a widower, no children (from first marriage) appeared on the census with him. However on the 1901 Census it says he was married to Ellen, and her children and their 5 children are all living together, again in Camberwell. The problem is I can find no record of their marriage, no record of her first marriage, no birth details for Ellen (greatgrandmother) or her children Henry or Ellen. There have been several people helping me, but we have all come up with nothing. I have more wrong certificates, than I have right ones, in an attempt to get a lead. I have also tried finding death certificates for my great grandparents, but no luck there either. In the 1901 census it states that my Great grandfather was born in Kentish town, and that my great grandmother was born in Peckham. It also states all the children were born in Peckham. I did try looking in the Plymouth area, as that is where my grandfather moved too, to marry my grandmother, so I thought thay might have moved there. Then I realised on my grandfather's marriage certificate it gives Frederick ( my greatgrandfather) as being deceased. It was suggested I try on this forum, to see if anyone can help.

    With much hope, and many thanks for reading,

    Sandra

  • #2
    Hello Sandra and welcome to FTF.

    There is always the possibility that they never married of course, or married much later than you think.

    When was Ellen Edmonds born, please?

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the kind welcome.

      On or around 1856, in the 1901 census it says she was 45.

      Thanks,
      Sandra

      Comment


      • #4
        Oc,

        I have tried up until 1922, the year my grandparents got married. I know my great grandfather had died by then. I have considered that they may not have married, but it doesn't explain not being able to find any birth details for Ellen or her two children Henry and Ellen. It has driven me mad for the last two months.

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you got these certs?

          Births Mar 1886
          YOUNGER Henry Arthur O Camberwell 1d 90*


          Births Mar 1889
          Younger Eleanor Jessie Camberwell 1d 898

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Merry Monty,

            I do have both of them. I can get information from them if it would help?

            Comment


            • #7
              OOh, sorry! ...........and welcome to FTF!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sandra26 View Post
                Hello Merry Monty,

                I do have both of them. I can get information from them if it would help?
                Were they for the right children?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi welcome to the forum,
                  Whoops you said you didn't have their birth details??? Henry and Ellen that is.
                  Is mother given as Edmonds/Edmunds on them?
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No they didn't appear to be. The mothers name didn't match, just trying to find them now, so I can let you know the mothers names, and see if you can tie them in to my Ellen.

                    Thanks for your help.

                    Sandra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kat,

                      It's down as Edmonds on all of my grandfathers siblings.

                      Thanks
                      Sandra

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                      • #12
                        I can't see a very good match for a birth for Elizabeth Chapman aged 9 in 1901. I've tried Chapman and Younger. However, I can't find a census entry for this child in 1891:

                        Births Mar 1891
                        Chapman Elizabeth Camberwell 1d 932

                        Obviously she would be 10 on the following census, but I wondered if she is Frederick and Ellen's daughter?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Merry Monty,

                          The certificate I have for Elizabeth gives her birth date as the 12/01/1891 and it looks as though she was born at 6 Healon Road, Peckham.

                          Have now found the other certificates and the mother was Sarah Ann Younger, formerly Bray. Although the dates, are fairly good. I did think I had found them, when I sent off for those certificates.

                          Sandra
                          Last edited by sandra26; 29-12-08, 22:51.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So the certs for Henry and Eleanor are probably not the right ones.

                            Did you mean the cert for Elizabeth is the right one? Have you found 6 Healon Road, Peckham in 1891?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sarah Annie Bray
                              to
                              William Younger

                              Sept Q 1d 1135 Camberwell 1882

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by sandra26 View Post
                                No they didn't appear to be. The mothers name didn't match, just trying to find them now, so I can let you know the mothers names, and see if you can tie them in to my Ellen.

                                Thanks for your help.

                                Sandra

                                Thats weird. I would have banked on them being the right ones.
                                It seems strange that you cannot find any certs for GGrandparents marriages and deaths too.
                                Your grandfathers birth cert details would be handy to start from scratch again I think.

                                Do you have that?

                                Sorry see you do have that. Was the certificate an original or written out? a mistake could have been made with her Maiden name?
                                Last edited by Katarzyna; 29-12-08, 22:59.
                                Kat

                                My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Elizabeth's is the right one. It's on the birth cert for where she appears to have been born in 1891. It looks like 6 Healon Road, Peckham.

                                  San

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                                  • #18
                                    No I haven't been able to find the address. I tried a few sites, but couldn't find it.

                                    San

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                                      Thats weird. I would have banked on them being the right ones.
                                      It seems strange that you cannot find any certs for GGrandparents marriages and deaths too.
                                      Your grandfathers birth cert details would be handy to start from scratch again I think.

                                      Do you have that?
                                      Strange, isn't it? I can't find Sarah Ann and her OH William Younger in 1891 with those children, Henry and Eleanor. Am going to try 1901.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sandra have just added a bit to my post 16 re birth cert.
                                        Kat

                                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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