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  • Divorce

    Is there any way to find out about divorce records? Some time between 1904 and late 1920s.

    OH's been researching on the 1911 census and found his grandmother was living with his grandfather (as a housekeeper). He's always been led to believe that by that time they were married! However, he now learns she was already married to someone else some 3 years earlier (he's found the cert.) he also has the cert of her marrying again some 20 years later, declaring herself the widow of his grandfather. However he can't find any record of a divorce between her and first husband, nor her marriage to grandfather. So, to give her the benefit of the doubt, he wonders if she and her first husband got divorced?
    Dorothy G

    searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

    There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

  • #2
    Is the reason that you can't find the marriage is that you are looking under the wrong surname for her? Also it is more likely that first hubby died or wandered off than divorce. You can check divorce records on findmypast - I understand its under the marriages section.
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    • #3
      Have you checked TNA for Divorce records.

      FMP only covers the period 1858-1903
      Elaine







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      • #4
        Thanks both.

        Pippa both she and first husband were still alive on the 1911 census - she living with, and had children by, OH's grandad and husband is living with his parents and his child by her, who is now 7 yrs old.

        Elaine - sorry, but what is TNA please?
        Dorothy G

        searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

        There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry, TNA = The National Archives

          Go to
          National Archives
          and put the name in the "word or phrase" box
          In the "Department of Series code" box put J 77 which will search for divorce records.

          You might find this interesting as well
          Divorce Records in England and Wales after 1858
          Last edited by Elaine ..Spain; 26-12-08, 22:31.
          Elaine







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          • #6
            Thanks for your help Elaine - I'll pass that on, and keep fingers crossed! :D
            Dorothy G

            searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

            There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

            Comment


            • #7
              Elaine - I wonder if you can offer some help on the Site and refs you gave.

              OH had to go out today, so asked me if I would search on that site for any Divorce between Lilian (possibly double 'll') Perry and Charles Joseph Perry between 1911 and 1929 (she remarried as a Widow).

              I've done this with a modicum of success in that I found some Charles Perry's - not necessarily the right ones though, which in I suppose in itself is an answer! Nothing for Lilian (Lillian or Lily) Perry.

              Because 2 of the Charles Perry ones listed a divorce from apparently the same woman and the same correspondent on 2 different years, 6 years apart I thought just out of a curiosity I'd put in a girlfriend's divorce in the 70s and gave fairly wide scope to the dates, and no records, so I put in my own divorce in 1979 and no records! :(

              So I've concluded I must be doing something wrong?

              Any help would much appreciated.
              Dorothy G

              searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

              There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

              Comment


              • #8
                From TNA website research guide on divorce:


                "If you need legal proof of a divorce in any court in England and Wales, from 1858 to the present day, contact the Principal Registry of the Family Division, Decree Absolute Section, First Avenue House, 42-49 High Holborn, London WC1V 6NP tel: 020 7947 7017 web: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/family/index.htm. For a fee, they will access their union index to the decrees for you, and either provide a certified copy of the information themselves (if the divorce was granted by the Supreme Court) or arrange for a certified copy to be sent to you from the relevant county court. If the divorce took place within the last 5 years, you can also contact the county court where it took place for a cheaper service. If you want information on the cause of the divorce, ask for the decree nisi as well as the decree absolute. Guidance and an application form can be found at: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/d440_e.pdf
                3. Case files: survival rates and search tips

                The Principal Registry contains only the decrees granting a divorce, but many people sued unsuccessfully for a divorce. For each suit, whether successful or not, case files were created, containing the original petition and response, relevant marriage and birth certificates, court process, copies of decrees (from about 1870 onwards) and sometimes evidence. Very few survive after 1937. Case files are now destroyed 20 years after the divorce. If you are within the 20 year period, you can apply to the relevant court for permission to see the file.
                Surviving case case files can be seen at The National Archives, in J 77 (which is searchable online by name).
                • 1858-1927: almost all survive
                • 1928-1937: 80% survive (files from the district registries have been destroyed)
                • search J 77 in the Catalogue, for these using forename AND surname e.g. Kathleen AND Smith as just searching for Kathleen Smith will not pick up Kathleen Winifred Smith
                • maiden names are not given except in petitions for nullity
                • although some co-respondents have been named in the Catalogue, we know that many others were not given in the indexes (from which the catalgoue entries were created) but are still mentioned in the case files themselves.
                • 1938-date: most have been destroyed. A very small annual sample has been kept, subject to 30-year closure
                • (search J 77 in the Catalogue, for these using surname only for example, Cassidy.
                • A further 2% random sample is in J 132 for cases where the Official Solicitor acted for one of the parties: these are subject to a 75 year or longer closure.
                • Divorces were often reported in the local or national press, particularly in the earlier years. If a divorce case appears in The Times, you should find the full report using The Times Digital Archive. "
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                • #9
                  Nell - thank you very much for putting that up, I had read some of the first part of the excerpt on the site. However, I'm grateful for the latter part - which shows my ''curiosity'' search is probably destroyed! But that's all it was as both my friend and I have the paperwork anyway.

                  All I was trying to do really was to be able to convince OH the records shown are complete because of the reasons I put in my post above.

                  Referring back to my first post - OH is just so stunned a) that his grandmother had been previously married and had a child b) OK, but she wasn't widowed as he's now traced her first husband's death. So the question was raised that were they divorced? She had 3 children by Gfather under her first married name (checked) and she had remarried as his widow. However, despite being given a ''wedding date'' by another family member for gfather and gmother's wedding, which he'd spent over 2 years looking for, that date turns out to be barely 2 years after she had married first time.

                  I had always teased him that they ''were living in sin'' but he'd said she was such ''an honourable woman, she couldn't have done that!''.

                  So we don't have any date for a divorce. I've tried all permutations of her christian name - variously known as Lily, Lilly, Lilian and Lillian, without success so far, from 1911 - 1929 (her remarriage as a widow.)

                  So I'm stuck and wondering if there's any other option.
                  Dorothy G

                  searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

                  There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I imagine a divorce would have been reported in the local newspaper as it was much rarer then.

                    Personally I think she probably didn't. We all like to think our ancestors never had sex outside of marriage etc but the reality is that they were no better or worse than we were/are.

                    On the other hand, it would have been relatively easy to go to an unknown parish and marry as a widow or single woman without anyone knowing any different.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You've summed it up I think Nell :D

                      More or less been my feeling about it all along. Like many I had one or two 'shocks' when I first started researching! Nothing fazes me really, as social history has always been one of my favourites areas of study.

                      Thank you very much for your help.
                      Dorothy G

                      searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

                      There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You're more than welcome, Dorothy.

                        My mum and I were both shocked when we found her great-aunt (a lovely motherly woman) had possibly had an illegitimate baby. It's frustrating that we may never know.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                        • #13
                          Ah well, there we are Nell :D

                          I had a similar thing with my (as I thought) grandma, a really strict Salvation Army Captain with whom I lived as a small child - turned out, I found out recently, she wasn't my grandma but an aunt by marriage and had been married and had seven children - sadly 3 of them had died at birth, she was widowed in WW1 - and presumably the remainder had left home, because in 9 years I never met them, except for the one - very prim spinster 'aunt', who lived with her.

                          C'est la vie!
                          Dorothy G

                          searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

                          There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

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                          • #14
                            My grandma was one of those very prim and proper ladies, disapproved of sex before marriage etc. So her eldest child was rather premature.
                            Kit

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                            • #15
                              LOL Kitkat

                              With her personality you would never have believed she knew anything about 'that' - let alone had 7 children....... amazing!
                              Dorothy G

                              searching Gillett (Preston/Sheffield). Campbell and Hepburn in Glasgow

                              There's no such thing as a Free Lunch

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If our ancestors hadn't discovered sex we would none of us be here, would we!
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  yeah, but knowing some of them enjoyed it, where there are illegitimate kids, is a little unnerving. it's like walking in on your parents. ick!!:o:o

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