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Floundering in Stockport!

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  • Floundering in Stockport!

    Please does anyone have local knowledge?

    I am trying to discover the location of "Hillgate Independent Chapel, Stockport" otherwise known as Hillgate Tabernacle Chapel.

    Googling has told me it was constructed in 1766, but not exactly where it was located. Also, if it was constructed in 1766, what was there before, because I have a record for Hillgate Tabernacle in 1723!

    This record is from a noncon register of Circuit Methodists in Lancashire and is held by Cheshire RO, which hints in the blurb that there may also be marriage records included, although not the dates covered.

    Any help or information on this chapel will be most appreciated.

    OC

  • #2
    It´s listed on the Manchester City Council site
    Manchester City Council - Church Register List - Stockport to Swinton

    Stockport- Hill Gate Tabernacle, Independent
    Baptisms-1709-1837- MFPR 297. Also searchable on-line.
    Burials-1807-1836- MFPR 297. Also searchable on-line.

    - maybe they would be able to help with location.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Going by the many ventures into the construction dates of varied pow's it could well be that the previous venue could have been on the same site and the 1766 building is the second/third building to occupy the site.

      Alternatively the earlier building may have been on the same street or possibly the congregation met in another building for many years prior to 1766
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


      • #4
        Manchester City Council think records began in 1709.

        Manchester City Council - Church Register List - Stockport to Swinton

        But National Index of Parish Registers (Google book search) says:

        "STOCKPORT Old Chapel or Tabernacle, Middle Hillgate (Independent) f 1672 (K 1928) OR C 1709-93, 1801-36"
        etc etc


        does f = formed? What does K stand for?

        Is Middle Hillgate a street?

        Comment


        • #5
          Post #13 or #14 in a thread i found on google has a reference, i'm not quite sure what to make of it.

          KIPPAX family Hollin Grove Briercliffe - OGFB | Forums | Names


          Still no joy with the location but the modern map shows Lower, Middle and Higher Hillgate, by the look of it they cover a fair distance.
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

          Comment


          • #6
            Was it Presbyterian?

            Someone called Peter Walkden (1684-1769) was appointed to the pastorate of the Old Tabernacle, Stockport, Cheshire in 1744. He is described as a Presbyterian minister and diarist - maybe he included your family in his diaries?!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmmm

              Wonder if he was the same chap quoted on the thread i mentioned;

              "We know that Joshua 1769 was christened by the official from The Tabernacle Hillgate Independant, Stockport, on the same page are christenings from around east lanc's and west yorks. The official travelled around doing services where there wasn't an authority to do them, and they were then put in his parish records
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

              Comment


              • #8
                Familia: Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council

                Comment


                • #9
                  Old Town Plans of Stockport

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, I saw that thread but it is a little late for my lot.

                    The Walkden connection is interesting, even though it is a very common name. The Holdens married Walkdens round about this time.

                    I am also now wondering...as this was a circuit register, maybe the Minister did not actually baptise the children there, (Stockport) but on his travels, which would make a lot more sense to me. Maybe the connection to the chapel was a much earlier one but the allegiance stayed with the family for generations. Hillgate turns out to have been "an important centre of weaving" which is perfect for this lot, who were weavers in Darwen, Lancs.

                    Very interesting if the registers do start in the 1600s as there is a gap in the parish registers for mine, not that I expect to find them in the C of E anyway, except for marriages.

                    I feel as if I am on the brink of grasping something very important, but I can't quite work it out yet. There are other Holdens included in this register at the same time, including a Ralph which is significant! His children have overtly Old Testament names which would explain the sudden appearance of the names Timothy, Titus and Daniel in this family as known forwards.

                    Merry, I think K refers to batch numbers in the IGI. The few records on the IGI for this chapel are "extracted" but drilling down to source reveals they are extracted from a computer print out. That would explain why there don't appear to be any female baptisms at this chapel!!

                    *Wanders off scratching head distractedly*

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry I can't help with the chapel but Hillgate (lower, middle and higher) starts in the town centre, running southward and joins the A6 close to the cemetery. My uncle had pub on Higher Hillgate 30 odd years ago.
                      Lynne

                      Searching for Ford, Duffy, (Manchester and Ireland) Cree (Manchester, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire), Owen (Manchester), Humphreys (Manchester and Ireland), Egerton (Manchester and Cheshire), Cresswell (Manchester).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        JanetH

                        Thankyou for those links which I will investigate once everything starts moving again next week, and I have marshalled my thoughts properly and decided what I really do want to know, lol!

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          OC

                          I live just outside Stockport. Never heard of the Chapel neither has OH, but I could pop into the Library for you or walk the streets, if it helps ;)

                          Jxx

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                          • #14
                            Manchester City Council - Church Register List - Stockport to Swinton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, my goodness me! My lovely contact has just emailed me with the additional marginal information on the other Holdens baptised there!

                              It's the Chaigley Manor lot! You know, carried a severed head round with them....

                              I am VERY puzzled though - they were Roman Catholics (Chaigley Manor) so why were they having their children baptised in a nonconformist chapel???

                              My Timothy is not known to have any connection to this family but it beggars coincidence that a randomly stray Holden would have his first son baptised in a chapel some 50 miles from where he was supposed to live (address given in the baptism register) unless he had SOME family connection to the Chaigley lot!

                              It just goes to show how very easy it is to be brainwashed by received and accepted information. So many people have researched this man and all say he was born in Darwen (true) lived in Darwen (true) and died in Darwen (true). No one has ever thought that he could also have lived elsewhere in his earlier years (including me) or had allegiances elsewhere.

                              Now, if only it had given his wife's name in the register.......!

                              Off to play with the Headless Ones.

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                OC, it might be worth a fiver buying the Stonyhurst mag of 1887 as mentioned on the Brit. Hist. site for Mitton where note 344 states that a 'Chapel House' existed in 1725 , Walkdens Diary?
                                You can buy the mags from the College, Quote, "Copies of most back issues from 1881 to the present time are still available. They can be purchased at £5.00 per copy, including postage/packing, from the Editor (for details, see below). via the Editor, The Stonyhurst Magazine, Stonyhurst College, Clitheroe, Lancashire " and an afterthought, maybe Stydd Church at Ribchester could be worth a look with its links into the Shireburns. It just seemed to be a good place to look after Stonyhurst, Chaigley Manor and Crawshaw and Holdens...


                                Family History


                                It isn't that far as the crow flies, as you are probably aware, from Chaigley- Clitheroe-Blackburn and Over Darwen or Chaigley- Ribchester - Blackburn and then to Over Darwen..
                                That looks like a bus route!!

                                Anne

                                Edit...
                                Another afterthought...I bet you've already done the Stydd search.
                                Last edited by Anne Brown; 27-12-08, 01:41.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi OC

                                  Having googled Peter Walkden's Diary, seems you might need to find a copy. There also a book on google books:

                                  History and Traditions of Darwen and Its People
                                  By Jno George Shaw
                                  Published by J. and G. Toulmin, 1889
                                  Original from Harvard University
                                  Digitized 25 Feb 2008

                                  Now I need to know where its digitised and how to get a look at it.
                                  Edit - ooh, $US 21.95 from archivecd books, gould etc.
                                  Last edited by dicole; 27-12-08, 03:56.
                                  Diane
                                  Sydney Australia
                                  Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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                                  • #18
                                    Anne and Di

                                    Thankyou for those prompts. I have just discovered that Peter Walkden's brother Thomas married a granddaughter of Timothy, which may or may not be significant!

                                    Di

                                    I have a copy of Darwen and Its People - it was that very book which started me doing this tree some 20 years ago! Trying to sort out the second part of the book - which gives genealogical details - has sent me and many other researchers quite insane. It was dictated in a breathless rush, without any punctuation and one paragraph can be several pages long.

                                    Ummm....perhaps I have to do the Walkdens now.....tried once before and didn't get very far.

                                    thank goodness I have a completely free day today.

                                    *sharpens pencil*

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      *sharpens pencil*
                                      Are you sure you're safe to be left alone with a sharpened pencil in this excitable frame of mind?
                                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        UJ

                                        Safer than black felt tip, certainly!

                                        I have been known to mark the ceiling with felt tip in the thrill of the chase.

                                        OC

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