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Did 1st cousins marry???

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  • Did 1st cousins marry???

    My cousin has just sent a couple of certs, one of them was a marriage between Frederick James Tomlinson aged 23 and Hannah Elizabeth Baxter aged 32, a widow, 1928 in Derby, father John Waring. now i know why i could never find her birth under Baxter

    Frederick born 1905 (have cert) Derby was the son of Gertrude Tomlinson nee Fletcher

    Gertrude had a sister Mary Ann Fletcher who married a John Waring and had a daughter Hannah Elizabeth born 1894 Derby

    The only marriage i can find for Hannah Waring is to a Sydney Baxter is in Chorlton, which i think is in Lancashire in 1919

    Sydney died in 1923 in Rochford Essex

    Am i right in thinking this is the same Hannah Elizabeth Waring/Baxter ?

    Were my lovely uncle and aunt (now both passed) 1st cousins. ?

    Sylvia
    Last edited by Ozzie Gert; 03-12-08, 11:34.
    Sylvia

    Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
    Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
    Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

  • #2
    It sounds very likely, but I suppose you need a bit more evidence to be certain. Does the occupation for John Waring on Hannah's marriage certificate match with what you have for the John who married Mary Ann? Do the witnesses on the marriage cert help at all?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Kite, the witnesses are my aunt Ethel and her husband to be so no help

      John Waring is a coal dealer in 1928 and i am haveing trouble reading the only census i have for him 1891 Derby
      Sylvia

      Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
      Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
      Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

      Comment


      • #4
        Vitriol Refiner.
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

        Comment


        • #5
          Not sure what one of those are ?

          Sylvia
          Sylvia

          Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
          Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
          Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

          Comment


          • #6
            Me neither, Sylvia! I'm just seeing if I can find him in 1901 to see what his occupation is then...
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              Isn't Vitriol another name for Sulphuric Acid?

              I believe that 1st cousins is the closest consanguine marriage allowed by ecclesiastical and civil law.
              Last edited by Grampa Jim; 03-12-08, 11:55.
              Grampa Jim passed away September 2011

              Comment


              • #8
                Found him in 1901 and he is still a Vitriol Refiner, but of course he could have changed occupation by 1928.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                Comment


                • #9
                  The only thing i can find from google is something to do with petrol
                  Sylvia

                  Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                  Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                  Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh, you might want the full 1901 details:
                    74 William St., Derby
                    John Waring Head Wid 32 Vitriol Refiner Tutbury Derby
                    Frank Do Son 12 Derby
                    Gertrude Do Daur 8 Do
                    Hannah Do Daur 7 Do
                    Beatrice Do Daur 5 do
                    Martha Do Daur 3 Do
                    Selina Russon(?) Boarder 32 Housekeeper Do
                    Infant Do Daur of Do 9 days do

                    *refrains from commenting on possible relationship between John and Selina and parentage of "infant"*
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oil of Vitriol is an archaic name for sulphuric acid. I think it was a byproduct of the distillation of coal to make gas (school chemistry lessons circa 1958!!).

                      BTW I have a marriage of first cousins in living memory, though one of them was adopted, so not blood relatives.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Your right GJ, it did mention sulphuric acid and something to do with colour.

                        Kite.. thank you, he could have changed his occupation by then, he would have been 60, so may have fallen on harder times

                        Sylvia
                        Sylvia

                        Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                        Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                        Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Actually, vitriol refiner to coal dealer isn't much of a jump.

                          I have a set of ancestors who were coal merchants in the mid 1850s and by the 1900s were a huge chemical company,(eventually becoming ICI) having passed through gas manufacture and coke refinery on the way, and having attracted many fines for "noxious smells"!

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I suppose if you can find his death registration or the marriage for one of the other children it should hopefully say Coal Dealer and then you could tie it all together. I'm just looking to see if there are any WW1 records for Francis that might mention his father's occupation. Found his medal card but it doesn't help. Then there might be historical directories etc - if he stayed at William St maybe there will be enough info...
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, i see what you mean, Mary Ann died Sept Q 1899

                              Just looking to see if they married

                              Sylvia
                              Sylvia

                              Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                              Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                              Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thank you for that OC, so could be the same man

                                Cannot find a marriage on Free BMD up til 1920 for John and Selina

                                Sylvia
                                Sylvia

                                Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                                Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                                Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There is a death reg for Selina Russon Jun 1923 Derby age 54, so I don't suppose they did get married. "Infant" was probably Louisa Russon whose birth was registered Jun 1901 Derby and she died Sep 1901 Derby age 0.

                                  None of which helps find out whether your John Waring became a Coal Dealer!
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    No it dosen`t, i wonder what 1911 will tell me, we are almost there. And from what OC said it seems a possibility, but going in reverse from her family.

                                    Sylvia
                                    Sylvia

                                    Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                                    Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                                    Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      You seem a bit shocked that your relatives might have been first cousins. Don't be! It is a perfectly legal relationship.

                                      My great grandparents were first cousins - their fathers were brothers - and it was sometimes mentioned in the family, with a little smile, so I guess its not terribly common.

                                      The main problem comes with family history research because you are cheated out of a huge chunk of genealogy!!!

                                      Anne

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Marriage of cousins is particularly common where there's a desire to keep something in the family: assets / culture / religion. It also happens, of course, where geography limits access to alternative partners.

                                        Christine
                                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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