Australian Ancestry help please

[Meridian Line]

If someone with access to Australian Ancestry could look up

Tom Lancelot Dalzell

I'd very much appreciate the info supplied.

Thank you.

[Chrissie Smiff]

What exactly do you want to know Louise? I have keyed in his name and various census have come up. One says Snr and one say Jnr, so it looks as though father and son had the same name.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have never looked at Australian records before but, for instance, the page I am looking at says at the top 1936 - subdivision of Petersham. Oh, and it's New South Wales - Dalley - Petersham.

Underneath it lists Tom Lancelot Snr (an engineer) and Jnr (No occupation) and Florence Adelaide (Home duties) all living at 83 Douglas Street. There is also a Katherine Rebecca at 24 Harrow Road (Home duties).

[Chrissie Smiff]

The other page that's coming up is 1930 Lang - Petersham. Just Tom and Florence living at the same address.

This time the Katherine one is living at 195 Stanmore Road. I don't know if she is yours but as she was the only one with the same surname I thought I would mention her.

[Chrissie Smiff]

There is someone on Ancestry asking about the same family - is it you? If not, they may be able to help?

Also, the same person and one other have public trees on Ancestry with him on.

[Mary from Italy]

Chrissie, those aren't census records but electoral rolls, so they only show people who were registered to vote (ie. aged over 21). You'll be able to see all the adults with the same surname living at the same address, but not children or people with other surnames.

[Mary from Italy]

There's no birth registered for him in NSW, but this is his death:

Registration Number / Last Name / Given Name(s) / Father's Given Name(s) / Mother's Given Name(s) / District
23317/1961 / DALZELL / TOM LANCELOT / TOM / KATHERINE R / NEWTOWN

NSW Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages - Historical Index Search

Haven't found a marriage for him so far.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Thanks Mary.

[Meridian Line]

Blimey, I went & had lunch, thinking everyone in Australia was asleep...& came back & found you'd all been helping...many thanks.

I was looking for any info there was on the electoral register...I'm pretty sure senior Dalzell is one of my Cumbrian lot, but I'm just trying to gather what info I can.
I've tried to contact the person on Ancestry...but so far had no response.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Meridian Line]

Chrissie/Mary,

could I assume that the 1930 data, with Tom & Florence only, would be Dad & Mum, who may have children at home with them but if they're under 21 then they wouldn't show. Does it say Tom is an engineer in the 1930 one, please?

[Meridian Line]

ooohhh!
Just realised Katherine Rebecca is mother of Tom senior....is there any way to get more info about who she's living with, any nuggets would be a help.
Thank you.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Chrissie/Mary,

could I assume that the 1930 data, with Tom & Florence only, would be Dad & Mum, who may have children at home with them but if they're under 21 then they wouldn't show. Does it say Tom is an engineer in the 1930 one, please?

Tom is an Engineer in 1930 too.
From what Mary says it sounds as though only people over 21 would show up.

Off to put in Katherine Rebecca to see if anything else comes up.

[Chrissie Smiff]

ooohhh!
Just realised Katherine Rebecca is mother of Tom senior....is there any way to get more info about who she's living with, any nuggets would be a help.
Thank you.

Sorry Louise, I can't find out anything else. She seems to be the only person named Dalzell over 21 in 1930 at that address.

I looked at the Immigration section but there don't appear to be any references to T.L. or K.R Dalzell. The problem is that there are a lot of Mr and Mrs Dalzells' going to Australia with no initials.

Hopefully someone with more experience will be able to help.

[Meridian Line]

Thanks for looking Chrissie.

I think Tom Lancelot Dalzell's father Tom Dalzell emigrated to New Zealand after 1861, but am having difficulty finding what happened to him after that, I presume he married Katherine Rebecca in NZ.

[Mary from Italy]

I've also looked for an emigration to Australian, but didn't find anything.

Does Lancelot Golding Dalzell ring any bells? There's a probate for him in NZ in 1971:

Archway

I don't know much about NZ records, I'm afraid, but I expect the Aussies and Kiwis will be along later.

How old should your Tom Jr and Sr be? There's no record of a Tom (or Thomas) Lancelot Dalzell in the Australian service records for WWI or WWII.

[Mary from Italy]

Chrissie/Mary,

could I assume that the 1930 data, with Tom & Florence only, would be Dad & Mum, who may have children at home with them but if they're under 21 then they wouldn't show.

You can't assume anything, I'm afraid, because the electoral rolls don't show ages or relationships.

[Mary from Italy]

Here's Katherine's death:

Registration Number / Last Name / Given Name(s) / Father's Given Name(s) / Mother's Given Name(s) / District

1480/1939 / DALZELL / KATHERINE REBECCA / WILLIAM / 87 YRS STANMORE / PETERSHAM

Australian death certs are very informative, so it'd be worth getting either hers or Tom Lancelot's or both.

The cert should show the deceased's age, marital status, occupation, date and cause of death, address, how long in Australia, parents' names, names and ages of living children and number of deceased children.

You can order the cert directly from the BMD registry linked to above, but it's much cheaper to get a transcription from an authorised agent:

NSW Registry of Births Deaths & Marriages

[Mary from Italy]

Here's Florence's death:

Registration Number / Last Name / Given Name(s) / Father's Given Name(s) / Mother's Given Name(s) / District

18746/1938 / DALZELL / FLORENCE LOUISE / THOMAS / KATHERINE / KEMPSEY

Looks like she's Tom's sister, especially as I can't see any births or deaths in NSW with Tom as the father, or a marriage for him.

[Meridian Line]

Mary,
many thanks for the stirling work. I've also spent the afternoon trawling through any & all leads.

Firstly, the Lancelot Golding Dalzell is from another branch believe it or not. My Cumberland Dalzells took delight in having Thomas and Tom in every generation, then disappearing off to New Zealand at regular intervals.

Thanks for Katherine's death record, I'd found a probate record for her in NZ (1948) & assumed ( wrongly), that probate & death would be same year. I think I've also found the original Tom Dalzell's probate in NZ in 1899.

Their son, Tom Lancelot Dalzell senior, died in 1961, but I don't know when he was born( I assume it would be NZ). At the moment he's the only child of Tom & Katherine I can find.

the Florence Louise Dalzell you found, is from a different family of a Thomas & Catherine(nee Funston) Dalzell, who I don't think belong to me ....but you never know!

[Meridian Line]

To Mary from Italy,

I just wanted to thank you for the advise about using the Authorised Agents for getting certificates. It's not something I would normally have gone for, but one of them is having a "sale", & at the current exchange rate, it's less than the price of a UK cert. so I've ordered one to start with.
Thanks again Mary, & here is the link again, in case anyone else is interested.

NSW Registry of Births Deaths & Marriages