he is in prison

[womblepatra]

hi all

My hubbys great great grandfather was in prison on the 1891 census
the prison in question is H M Prison, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire.

I cant understand why he would be in prison in buckinghamshire when in the previous 1881 census and then the later 1901 census he was living in lancashire

his poor wife stated on the 1891 census that she was widowed
but 10years later on the 1901 census there he was living back with her, she was obviously too embarrassed to tell the truth.

i wonder what his crime was, and why a prison in buckinghamshire, it seems a little far away from his home town. surely he could have been sent to a closer one. ie. strangeways. could he possibly have travelled due to his occupation.

his occupations were
1871 railway porter,
1881 labourer,
1891 engine driver excavator, (in prison this census)
1901 labourer navvy

is there anyway i could find out was his crime was, maybe a newspaper article, is there any newspapers online that i should check

thanks

[Little Nell]

Hallo

People got sent to prison quite a long way from where they lived sometimes.
You need to see the full prison register which should be in the Bucks records office. This should give details of when he was admitted and what his crime was.

If you want to give his name, I could see if there's a report in the Times archive.
Additionally, TNA at Kew has quarterly returns of prisoners, which states their name, age and health condition.

[Little Nell]

Victorian Prisoners in Buckinghamshire - Buckinghamshire County Council

is a searchable resource for prisoners admitted in 1870s, so too early for you, but you can use the links to find out more.

[womblepatra]

thanks nell

yes his name is sampson morris,

[Little Nell]

Nothing in The Times.

[womblepatra]

thanks nell,

[Peppie]

hi all

My hubbys great great grandfather was in prison on the 1891 census
the prison in question is H M Prison, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire.

I cant understand why he would be in prison in buckinghamshire when in the previous 1881 census and then the later 1901 census he was living in lancashire

his poor wife stated on the 1891 census that she was widowed
but 10years later on the 1901 census there he was living back with her, she was obviously too embarrassed to tell the truth.

i wonder what his crime was, and why a prison in buckinghamshire, it seems a little far away from his home town. surely he could have been sent to a closer one. ie. strangeways. could he possibly have travelled due to his occupation.

his occupations were
1871 railway porter,
1881 labourer,
1891 engine driver excavator, (in prison this census)
1901 labourer navvy

is there anyway i could find out was his crime was, maybe a newspaper article, is there any newspapers online that i should check

thanks

Hold your thoughts..... and re ask again at a later date
the answer might be in the assizes records. I'd offer to look at the national archives but I think i have more than I can look at in Dec.

but that is where you need to look first.

I can have a look for you but it might not be for a couple of months and someone else might be able to do it before.

The National Archives | Research, education and online exhibitions | Research guides | In-depth learning guides | Local history | The law may help. you can either approach someone else, or I can have a look if you can find some other info but it will be later rather than sooner... or ask if Bucks archives has some info for you, which I would suggest you do first.

[Tony Cummings]

Liverpool Assizes Dec 17th 1888.
Sampson Morris,labourer was convicted of having at Manchester feloniously assaulted his daughter Mary.
He was sentenced by Justice Wills to twelve years penal servitude.
There were charges of commiting similar assaults on two other daughters.

[Olde Crone Holden]

The assaults must have been VERY serious, to attract the interest of the law at that time.

Usually, a man was seen as having absolute right to "discipline" his wife and children in any way, short of actual murder.

OC

[Little Nell]

Had another look on ~The Times archive with Tony's info, but it only has a snippet from the Nothern circuit assizes about a murder case.

[Vonny North West]

Hi, Peppie - London, and Womblepatra - Derbyshire. Re Sampson Morris. He is also my grt.grt. grandfather, my grandfather was his son Richard. I have the transcript of Sampson's term in Jail in Aylesbury - not a very nice crime. He was taken into custody on the 6th Dec. 1888, tried at the assizes on 17th Dec. and was found guilty of rape of his 3 daughters, Ellen who was 17, Mary aged 15, and Sarah who was only 9 years old. He got 12 years. His previous conviction in 1875 was for stealing a coat from his master - I suppose boss today. For that he served 2 months in Strangeways, he had also been fined twice for drunkeness. There is a description of him on the police gerneral register, frsh complexion, brown hair, grey eyes, height 5' 8 and a quarter. His complexion is pockmarked, swollen veins inside right leg and a scar across the bridge of his nose. His wife Annie was the person named on this document as the person to be advised of discharge and was then living at 54 Libby Street, Gorton Road, Openshawe, Manchester. There is only one of Richard Morris's children now left alive, she is 82, and Sampson was her grandfather, she didn't know of his history, she was a late baby not being born until 1937 and the youngest of the family. Sampson died in 1902 from a massive stroke, his son Edward was with him but I haven't done a search for his burial so I haven't that information, very possily Gorton cemetary. It would be nice to hear from you both and let me know which of Sampson's children you are descended from. I have from time to time tried to find where all the children went but without much luck. The only one I know that married and moved on is Henrietta the eldest daughter, but she was Annie's child and Sampson wasn't her father.
If you would like anymore information especially about the existing family please get in touch.
Bye for now.
Vonny.

[Darksecretz]

Hello Vonny,

welcome to the forum, it has been quite some time since Womblepatra has been onsite, though should you wish to contact her, you will need to use our PM [private message] system onsite, to do this, you need to click on her username to the left and you will get a drop down box, with 'private message' click on that and you can compose a message to send to her, hopefully then you can initiate contact with her and swap info.

[Vonny North West]

Hi Darksecretz, I realised from the date of Womblepatra's post that a few years have passed and this is just a hope to get in touch. Many thanks for the info on the private message, I did send one from my inbox but have no idea if I had done it the right way so I will send another one by clicking on her name as you suggested. This is obviously one branch of the family I would really like to have contact with and I am sure they have much more information that they can pass on to me. By the way, I got carried away with the grt., Sampson was my grt.grandfather. What an unfortunate character to be descended from.
Thanks again for putting me right!
Vonny.

[Janet H.]

Hi
Had a look on Manchester cemetery burials, no match.
Also looked on Tameside burial and cremation records, no match.

http://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/GenSearch.aspx

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/bereavement

[Darksecretz]

Hi Darksecretz, I realised from the date of Womblepatra's post that a few years have passed and this is just a hope to get in touch. Many thanks for the info on the private message, I did send one from my inbox but have no idea if I had done it the right way so I will send another one by clicking on her name as you suggested. This is obviously one branch of the family I would really like to have contact with and I am sure they have much more information that they can pass on to me. By the way, I got carried away with the grt., Sampson was my grt.grandfather. What an unfortunate character to be descended from.
Thanks again for putting me right!
Vonny.

it is a pleasure Vonny to be able to help you,

do let me know if you get a response from Womblepatra, [if not, then we may be able to contact her via her email.]

[Vonny North West]

Hi Janet, it's very kind of you to have a look for a burial for Sampson Morris. I had already had a look on
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch no record of either burial or cremation. His death is recorded as having happened at 62 Bay Tree Lane Middleton Manchester, 27th April 1902 aged 59, it just might be possible he could have been buried locally, Rochdale being the next nearest town.
Many thanks for your help.
Vonny.

[Janet H.]

http://apps1.oldham.gov.uk/bacasweb/GenSearch.aspx

cant find him on the Oldham one either :-(