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Is this the SAME man?

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  • Is this the SAME man?

    1861 Clerkenwell
    Chas GIBSON b 1837 St Andrews Middlesex

    1871 Caterham Surrey
    Charles S GILSON b Bermondsey c1846 (I think it's T)

    In 1861 Chas is married to Ellen Rachael

    In 1871 Ellen Gilson and her 2 sons (Charles & Edmund) are in lodgings in Bermondsey – “Husband absent”

    If they are the same man, then this could be his death –
    Charles Turner Gilson 35 yrs Sep Qtr !871 – Godstone Reg Dist (This would include Caterham)

    Your opinions, please?

    I can't find Ellen in 1881, but in 1891 she's widowed and employed in Margate as a lady's help. In 1901 she is in Islington with her sister & family.
    Haven't found the boys either.

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  • #2
    Jay

    I think it unlikely someone would mistake St Andrews (which is Holborn) in London for Bermondsey, which is south of the river, but stranger things have happened and Ellen his wife seems to be the same woman.
    Last edited by Little Nell; 11-11-08, 21:58.
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

    Comment


    • #3
      Thankyou for your reply. Nell.

      Lots of discrepancies (especially age and Charles T says he's single), but Ellen and the boys were living in Bermondsey in 1871 and younger son was born in Bermondsey in 1870. I suppose he could have said he "came from" there???
      I thought there could be some common ground with the employment for both men?

      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


      • #4
        Just found a Charles S [cd be T but looks like S] Gilson age 14 apprentice in Clerkenwell, says born St Pancras
        HO107; Piece: 1519; Folio: 91; Page: 19
        ~ with love from Little Nell~
        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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        • #5
          1871 Charles is a patient so the information would have been provided to enumerator by the hospital authorities, who in turn would probably have got them from Charles' wife. The age thing is more of a worry than the birthplace, but it might well be that the person copying the enumerator's list misread 35 for 25.
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

          Comment


          • #6
            The death cert has the right age, if it is him, and its in the right area.
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

            Comment


            • #7
              IGI has
              Charles Turner Gilson
              Birth: 22 JAN 1837
              Christening: 21 FEB 1837 St Pancras Old Church 1837, parents Henry Gilson and Sarah Nunn. batch #CO47933
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks again ,Nell

                It also says the patient is single.

                The 1851 entry records him as an apprentice to a pocket book maker - this ties in with the 1871 occupation and the 1861 age!

                Ellen Rachael lived in Camberwell and was married there (to Charles Gilson) in 1859.

                I feel that as he had a mental health problem, perhaps I shouldn't get to hung up about some of the information being "out".

                Jay
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #9
                  Janet

                  Well, we can link the baptism with 1851 Charles, and his apprenticeship fits in with his occupaton as you said.

                  I can't see alternative Charleses for the census.

                  And whereas its more comforting if all the facts fit, I do have examples of ages being up to 20 years out (!!!) and people not being sure which county they were born in.

                  I have a gt gt grandfather who is on all censuses 1841-1901 with a slightly different age on each and 5 different birthplaces, all equally plausible. I've found 2 baptisms that could be him and not yet been able to eliminate one of them. And I can't find his death, though I do have a death cert that could be him, but I'm not convinced!!!
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder if you could get his records from the Asylum? There's some information about it here,

                    which says Caterham Asylum was opened in 1870 so Charles must have been one of the first inmates.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, I thought so. It was known as St Lawrence's when I was a girl- our school bus went past it on the way home.

                      Joey Deacon, who was severely handicapped and spent all his life there, wrote an autobiography which became quite well-known.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nell,
                        Thanks for your all help.
                        It's Ellen that's the twig on my tree (and on a parallel line) but Charles sounds "interesting."
                        Will research the asylum when I come back from holiday - quite a few instances in this parallel Quaker line.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment

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