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Surname Genetics Y Chromosome (Radio 4 @4.30pm)

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  • Surname Genetics Y Chromosome (Radio 4 @4.30pm)

    Material World has a feature on this - the programme is on at the momemt though the Genetics part hasn't started yet.

  • #2
    I did listen to this & have to say I wasn't particularly impressed. I've had correspondence with Brian Sykes in the past about the basis for some of his research & I have to say I think he makes far too many generalisations & assumptions about just how mobile our Victorian & earlier ancestors were.

    His current pet project is linking together men with the same surname & Y chromosome - ie men sharing the same surname are descended from the same ancestor. Note this only applies to certain of the rarer surnames (surprise, surprise)

    Amongst other things, he is basing some of his findings about surname distribution on that 1881 census sitemap that some of us have been very scathing about. As far as my own surname is concerned, over half of my 4xgt grandfather's descendents have been mis-spelled in 1881 which gives a totally false picture about their distribution.

    However, what I find worrying about this, in the not-too-distant future, someone will start extrapolating DNA info from crime scenes to give the likely surname of the criminal. This is a step too far.
    Vicky

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    • #3
      I've just finished listening to Bryan Sykes' narrating his book "The seven daughters of Eve" on 7 cassettes from the library.

      Whilst I found it fascinating, I was also a bit concerned at how they seem to have arrived at so many conclusions based on such small evidence.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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      • #4
        But why let the facts get in the way of a good story, Nell?
        Kit

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        • #5
          I posted about it as the programme started and share some of your concerns now I have heard it. As far as using genetic evidence from crime scenes goes, surely the possibility of adding a name would be an advance.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jill on the A272 View Post
            I posted about it as the programme started and share some of your concerns now I have heard it. As far as using genetic evidence from crime scenes goes, surely the possibility of adding a name would be an advance.
            Suppose (like me) you have a fairly rare surname. How would you feel if the police said they were looking for someone with that surname in connection with a very serious & major crime. This name is, in effect, plucked out of a bag where several people of that surname had the same pattern on their Y chromosome.

            Brian Sykes himself said he estimated "non-paternity" events at about 1% per generation, but this is based almost entirely on his own surname. I have heard much higher figures quoted by others (possibly a lot more expert in the field of DNA finger printing like Alec Jeffreys). I suspect the number of illegitimate births (and non-paternity events LOL) might also be a regional/social thing.
            Brian Sykes's team have not researched any pedigrees (other than Sykes)further than 2 or 3 generations back. My OH has the surname Smith, but his 4x gt grandfather - who gave him this surname - was most likely NOT his biological father, as he was conceived 2 years before he married the mother (and he was already on his 3rd wife at the time). Now if his name was something a lot less common...
            Last edited by Vicky the Viking; 07-11-08, 10:16.
            Vicky

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            • #7
              I missed this programme, but I do share Vicky's concerns about DNA and what it can and cannot tell us.

              Bryan Sykes is a very clever man and I have read all his books. His passion for his subject makes him very readable. But I do agree with Nell - he has drawn some BIG conclusions from some tiny (statistically) evidence.

              I can tell you from my own family history research that it is highly probable that all Holdens in Lancashire are related to a single person originally. But it is beyond reasonable belief that there would not be one single "non paternity event" in the last 1200 years, so where does that leave us? Who are the true surname Holdens and who are the cuckoos?

              That probably doesn't matter from 1200 years ago, but if you are going to draw surname conclusions from scenes of crime, then it is very dangerous.

              OC

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              • #8
                anyone wanting more info, look at the BBC website

                BBC - Radio 4 - The Material World

                you can also listen to it - the genetics bit is in the second part of the broadcast, about 17 minutes in.
                Vicky

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