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Did he marry 2 sisters?

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  • Did he marry 2 sisters?

    I have long suspected that my 2x great grandfather John Spencer was married before he married Lucy Knowles in Chesterfield 13 Oct 1832 as the 1841 census has 2 children Elizabeth (1830) and William (1831) born before that marriage

    The 1851 census has William born Matlock, i now have.

    John Spencer born 1803 Cric...Occupation Miller
    Lucy Knowles born 1812 Matlock

    From the andrews pages and the wirksworth site,

    John Spencer marrying Frances Knowles 1828 Matlock
    2 children born Elizabeth and William...fathers occupation Miller

    From FHO Frances Spencer buried 25 Jan 1832 Matlock aged 28

    2 questions

    Lucy had a sister Fanny born 1803, could this be Frances?

    Do you think John Spencer married 2 sisters?

    Could i have your opinion on this please

    Sylvia
    Sylvia

    Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
    Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
    Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

  • #2
    Sounds very likely, Sylvia - although it was "forbidden", it seems to have been very common!
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

    Comment


    • #3
      Ozzie

      Yes, seems perfectly likely to me.

      The Church forbade such marriages but the general population didn't give a hoot, in fact marrying your dead wife's sister was seen as rather a good thing to do - she would be a kind stepmother to her sister's children and her habits would already be known to the groom and his family. A practical solution to a problem.

      OC

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      • #4
        Thank you Kite and OC, John and Lucy went on to have 10 more children of their own,

        Sylvia
        Sylvia

        Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
        Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
        Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

        Comment


        • #5
          I have at least one in my family, his wife died, the sister moved in and a couple of years later they quietly married away from the village!
          Marion
          There is no absolute truth - and no final answer.

          Comment


          • #6
            if you don't have copies of the actual entries, it would be worth looking at the witnesses. Sisters were often witnesses.

            As OC says, it went on all the time.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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            • #7
              Thank you Marion, he must have taken up with Lucy soon after Frances died the first child was baptised Feb 1833, naughty boy

              Sylvia
              Sylvia

              Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
              Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
              Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

              Comment


              • #8
                Not as awful and heartless as it sounds. He would have desperately needed someone to look after the children and the household and the sister was probably drafted in as soon as Lucy died.

                I expect Elizabeth saw this as her chance, lol, still on the shelf at 30, and didn't waste any time comforting the poor widower.

                OC

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                • #9
                  I have another one OC that married 3 months after his first wife died, but they were not sisters.

                  Sylvia
                  Sylvia

                  Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                  Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                  Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well my little fellow was naughty all round! His first wife died in Dec 1836 after 8 children, he then had twins with his second wife in 1837 and another child in 1841 - but he didn't marry her until 1843!!!:D
                    She died in 1846 - he didn't marry her sister until 1849 - and as I said - it was some distance from where they were living.
                    Marion
                    There is no absolute truth - and no final answer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And they think its only the generations around now that are like this, well have we got news for them.

                      Sylvia
                      Sylvia

                      Derbyshire :- Gough, Tomlinson, Fletcher, Shipley, Spencer, Calladine, Rogers, Kerry, Robotham
                      Leicestershire:- Gough, Cooper, Underwood, Hearn, Inglehearn
                      Staffordshire:- Robotham, Hickinbotham, Hill, Holmes

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lucy and Frances could be cousins, Frances and Lucy's sister Fanny being named after the same female relative.

                        As for complications, in my husband's tree I have the Sellars sisters.
                        Sarah Matilda Sellers married William Edward Ehn
                        Eve Sellers married his brother Charles Ehn
                        Amelia Sellers married William Holmstead Marsden
                        Matilda Sellers married William's brotherLewis Cottingham Marsden

                        Not too complicated, 2 sisters married 2 brothers and the other 2 sisters married another set of brothers.

                        But then Amelia Sellers Marsden and Charles Ehn, both of whom had witnessed Matilda's marriage to Lewis were both widowed and then Amelia married Charles and was thus Amelia Sellers Marsden Ehn.
                        Last edited by Little Nell; 03-11-08, 19:26.
                        ~ with love from Little Nell~
                        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I also have this happening, although I don't think he married the second sister.

                          The 1851 census shows Thomas Cunningham (a mariner) and his wife Elizabeth (born somerset) and their children, and also a "sister" Jane of Somerset with a "nephew". From this I would assume as the two girls came from somerset it is them themselves who are sisters and the nephew is Jane's sons - out of wedlock

                          Elizabeth died in 1858.

                          In the 1861 census following Elizabeth's death, Thomas is not listed - I assume he is at sea. Jane Cunningham is listed she is a mariners wife, married, head of family, she is listed with Thomas's and Elizabeth's youngest child, also Thomas (jnr) plus her own illegitimate son who is listed as a cunningham.

                          I can't find a reference to a marriage between Thomas Cunningham and Jane of Somerset and I assume they must of lived out of wedlock.

                          If that wasn't complicated enough Elizabeth and Jane's brother, Henry had a daughter - Mary Ann Solomon and she went on to marry the youngest son of Elizabeth and Thomas Cunningham which was of course Thomas jnr (above) which makes them cousins

                          Arrggghhhhhhh
                          Names I am researching
                          GARNETT, ALMACK, WHITAKER, WARD, ARCHER - Skipton, Yorks HIBBERT, SHUTTLEWORTH, HAYTHORNWHITE, HITCHEN, MARSDEN Lancashire EMERY Manchester WALTON Northants and Sunderland PARROTT Northants GREENWOOD, Lancs and Yorks SUNDERLAND, TODD, KEIGHLEY, SNOWDEN, TURNER Yorkshire WOODROFFE Wilts, Leics and North East CROSSLEY, COATES, FORSTER, WRIGHT, LAVERICK, CUNNINGHAM Sunderland / North East BISSETT Scotland and Sunderland

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