I've just deleted from WDWTYA October because

[Yvonne from Oz]

I am going to be away for the first week in November.

However, I was asked if I would like to put my request on a separate thread a few weeks ago, but I didn't because i wasn't going to be here on several weekends.

However - I am here this weekend and all next week so here goes. If some kind soul could break this down for me I would be so grateful.

A John Kilminster arrived as a convict(house breaking) in Australia aboard the 'Marquis of Hastings' on 15 October 1828. Information from convict records indicate he was 20years old when convicted. That would put his birthdate c1808. Information on his death cert indicates c1810. Information on a son's birth cert indicated c1802. His place of birth is given as Bath.

A John Kilminster obtained a ticket of leave in 1844 and lived in Brisbane Waters, NSW.

So, what I need is a birth in the Bath area; Father possibily William, mother possibly Mary Jane and also-

to connect the JK arriving in Sydney 1828 with the JK in Brisbane Waters in 1844. I haven't been able to find any other convict records for him, except a marriage of John Kilminster to Mary McMann in 1844 at Scotts Church, Sydney.

I might add that by 1846 the children of JK in Brisbane Waters NSW were recorded as Kimmister

I have all the information from Brisbane Waters forward.

[Mary from Italy]

This is the transcript of his trial at the Old Bailey, which Vonnie already has, if I remember rightly:

Central Criminal Court

He was tried on 6th December 1827 and said to be aged 18. The theft was committed at St. Luke, London. His death sentence was presumably commuted to transportation for life.

[Mary from Italy]

There's someone called Cathy on GR who has a John Kilminster born Bath, 1810, in her tree. Have you been in touch with her?

I've checked FreeReg, but it doesn't have anything for the right sort of date. There are two Kilminster baptisms in Bath, Henry (1818) and James (1821), to parents Charles (a coachman) and Elizabeth.

Where did the names of William and Mary Jane come from? His death cert?

[Yvonne from Oz]

Hi Mary,
Sorry, been doing FH. Yes - his death cert has his parents names - but i don't put too much store in it, although his wife was still alive when he died, a son gave the details.

Occupation on Death Certificate is Bush Carpenter. Name on Death certificate John Kemstear died 28th January 1868
His son William was the informant for his death and could not sign his name.
It is noted on the Death Certificate that John was married to Mary McMahon in Wollongong when he was 35 years old and that he was 58 years old when he died. That would put the marriage ca. 1845 and his birth ca.1810. However, information on Charles' birth certificate indicates his birthdate c1802 and his age at death would then be 66.

However, Mary's death certificate states she was married in Sydney, and on Charles' birth cert she gives the church, Presbyterian, and date 20/07/1844.
In 1844 a John Kilminster married a Mary McMann at the Presbyterian Scotts Church, Sydney
V1844951 73B/1844

[Yvonne from Oz]

Just been checking out the Cathy on GR.
I last had contact with her in December 2006 and that is my information she has added!!
I don't think she has checked it but I will contact her again to see if she has any updated information.
I did ask her for further info on her side of the family (I practically gave her all her family tree as I was new to
FH then. I'm more wary now!!) but she never got back to me.

[Yvonne from Oz]

Mary - John's Death cert puts his father's trade as plasterer. Now, i was in contact with a lady in 2006 who had Kilminsters, not in Bath but in villages in the area who give their trade as tiler / slater etc.

I will just go and dig up that information.

is there a trade directory of something that might help?

[Mary from Italy]

There are very few early trade directories online, but there may be something here:

Historical Directories

[Christine in Herts]

And for Bath :D :
Four Bath Post Office Directories - 1852, 1872, 1895 and 1912

It's on the Bath BMD site - either CDs to buy or BIG pdfs to download.

These are BIG downloads. If you would rather receive a CD by post, containing all four volumes, send a cheque for £3.95 payable to John Fairlie, to 20 Montague Road, Saltford, Bristol. BS31 3LA.

Christine

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

There's a Robert Kilminster on the 1841 census who is a plasterer and tiler. He's 40, born in Somerset and living at Long Ashton which is about 12 miles from Bath. No apparent family with him.

On the following census he has aged to 58 (lol) and is a painter (unmarried). Still in Long Ashton and says he was born at Wraxall which is 16 miles from Bath.

On the 1851 census there's a James Kilminster living in St Pancras, London who is a plasterer and was born in Bath around 1810 (could he be your chap's brother?)

[Yvonne from Oz]

Thanks Mary - do you know what County Bath is in?

I just checked my messages on GR and it was May 2006 that I last had contact with a lady - Becky - about the Kilminsters. Unfortunately, we graduated to exchanging emails on my home computer and that was hacked mid 2006 and crashed losing all info. However - she couldn't match up wither William or John with her FH at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~ to Merry and Christine. I'm a bit slow typing!

[Mary from Italy]

The Historical Directories site I linked to above has the following entries in the 1846 Bath directory:

Kilminster Jesse, cooper, 52 Richmond Place
Kilminster William, coachman, opposite Richmond Place.

[Mary from Italy]

Bath's in Somerset.

The 1844 Pigot's Directory has the following entry under Wiltshire:

Plasterers & Slaters
Kilminster William, Cricklade

[Christine in Herts]

Bath is usually (historically) in Somerset.

If you have a lot of connections in that area, it might be worth looking
[a] in the Somerset bit of the Wiki, here, and
[b] in the Somerset section of UKBMD - Births, Marriages, Deaths Indexes & Census transcriptions for the UK, On-Line

Christine

[Yvonne from Oz]

Merry - is there anyone else living with that James Kilminster.

By the way - I don't have an Ancestry sub - I just have been using a library copy but it is now a dead url!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Yes, Wife Harriet and children, aged nine downwards. I couldn't see a marriage easily for them after 1837, but as Harriet was in her late30's (I think) they were perhaps married before this. Can't see them in 1841 yet (or after 1851 either! lol)

Hang on, I'll get the childrens names.......

[Christine in Herts]

If it's a trade directory, it probably won't mention other names at the address. Even Post Office directories tend to mention only the Head of the Household.

Christine

[Yvonne from Oz]

Thank you Christine

Mary - I think Cricklade has a lot of Kilminsters all plasterers and Slaters / tilers.

Unfortunately I also think my JK was a really accomplished Thief and Liar! but the plasterer bit seems to have
a ring of truth somewhere there.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

1851 transcript:

James Kilminster head m 42 plasterer b Bath Somerset
Harriet Kilminster wife m 36 b Swindon, Wiltshire
George Kilminster son 9 b St Pancras, Middlesex
James Kilminster son 6 ditto
Eliza Kilminster dau 3 ditto
Ann Manns visitor widow 56 b Chieveley, Berkshire

17 Salisbury Crescent, Kentish Town, St Pancras, Middlesex

At least the last two children are registered, so you could get Harriet's maiden name and pray they were married after 1837 as then James' father's details would help you determine they are to do with your John.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Births Mar 1845
KILMINSTER James Edward S Pancras 1 2*



Births Dec 1847
KILMINSTER Elizabeth Harriet Jane St Pancras 1 288

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Is it significant there are no further GRO entries for the two children (marriages or deaths) on FreeBMD, nor tidy deaths for the parents?

Makes me think they emigrated, though maybe they dropped middle names (I see Elizabeth is Eliza by 1851) etc and Harriet re-married at some point?