William Toombs Bott

[Tom Tom]

Hello,

I have been unable to find any info on the above mentioned gentleman.


I have his daughters two marriages - one in 1939 and one in 1945. Both of them describe her father as William Toombs Bott, a Farmer. He was a witness at one of the weddings and may have been at the other (I have transcribed it as W J Bott - could have been a T I suppose).


His daughter was born c1916 although I have been unable to find her in the birth indexes and will not put her name on here as she may still be alive.

I should add the two weddings were in Packington Parish Church, Leicestershire

Hope someone has some good ideas,


Tom

(PS. I have thought about them maybe being foreign but Bott is popular in England - there are over 2000 of them on ancestry 1901 transcriptions).


Thanks in advance

[Little Nell]

Can only suggest that you try electoral rolls. What was William's occupation? Have you tried looking for surname Toombs?

[Tom Tom]

He was a Farmer which is a very popular job in the area at the time.

There are about 400 Toombs's on the 1891 and 1901 but none in Leicestershire.


I seem to remember seeing something about WT at the records office when I was there so will have a look again next week when I go

Thanks Nell.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I should think this lady is connected, given the area:

Births:
Name: Eleanor Toome Bott
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Ashby de la Zouch
County: Derbyshire, Leicestershire
Volume: 15
Page: 17

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Merry! I never know what to take out and leave in. :o

This looks like her in 61

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2269; Folio: 43; Page: 17

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I can't see her anywhere else!!

[KiteRunner]

One problem is that in any index which only gives middle initial instead of full middle name, there are loads of William T Botts and most of them are probably Thomases. There is a possible William T Bott marriage on FreeBMD Jun 1914 to Florence Woodward in Ashby de la Zouch district. There are some children listed on FreeBMD who look to belong to that couple so you could look at those to see if their names match the one you're looking for?

There is also a William T Bott death in Ashby in Jun 1919 but age 57 and if your William was a witness at a wedding many years later then that death can't be him (also it more or less matches a William Thomas Bott birth!).

[zoejg]

I have a possible in the 1901 census, but it's only a William Bott. The DOB is about right, and the record is actually for Packington:

RG13 / Piece 2972 / Folio 42 / Page 15

[KiteRunner]

There is a possible for Eleanor Toome Bott in 1851, transcribed as Boll on ancestry, but whether it's her and whether there is any connection with William, I don't really know. But her father is a William:

Moor, Cole Orton, Leicestershire
William Bott Head Mar 27 Coal Sub(?) Leics Coleorton
Betsey Do Wife Do 27 Sub Wife Do Do
Eleanor Do Daur 6 Scholar Do Swannington
Betsey Do Do 3 do Do
Matthew Do Son 8 mo Do Coleorton

There is an IGI submitted entry for Eleanor but it gives her middle name as Joane. Also an extracted one for her at Coleorton (1848, joint baptism with sister Betsey) which doesn't give a middle name at all.

[KiteRunner]

In 1861 Eleanor is a servant at Worthington, Leics transcribed on ancestry as Ellen S Bott but it says Ellen T Bott on the image (sorry, think you already had that one!). In 1871 transcribed as Both, sorry got to go now!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

By a process of elimination I now know who the daughter is! lol

I think you will find her death was reg in the second married name in Oct 2004 aged 88. The date of birth at the death puts her birth reg as Q3 or Q4 1916. There's nothing on FreeBMD, but the birth reg is on the full listings for Q4 1916.

Anyway, this is the marriage of mum and dad (the one Kite posted earlier!):


Marriages Jun 1914
Bott William T Woodward Ashby Z. 7a 247
Woodward Florence Bott Ashby Z. 7a 247

I haven't checked the page number (which is wrong!) as I guess you will be looking this up at the RO, not getting the cert from the GRO.

Watch out if you do a "sibling" search on FreeBMD, as there's more than one Bott/Woodward marriage in the same area in the "after 1914" period!!!

[KiteRunner]

Merry, I'm not sure that the page number is wrong - I think it's just that FreeBMD haven't decided to make "Ashby Z" a proper "synonym" for Ashby de la Zouch and that's why it's displayed in italics. (As to why they haven't made it a synonym I'm not sure.)

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Ah, OK Kite, I didn't know that!

[KiteRunner]

Okay, this is the IGI entry for the marriage of who I guess might be Eleanor's grandparents, but still no clue as to whether she is related to William Toombs Bott!! At least it gives us another possible variant of Toombs:

Matthew Bott / Ellin Toone 19 Oct 1823 Coleorton, Leicestershire.

[KiteRunner]

Okay, giving up on Eleanor / Ellen for the minute and going back to the family that ZoeJG found in 1901, there is a Fanny age 39 born Northamptonshire Cosgrove, son William age 9 born Packington, and some other children, and Fanny's husband isn't there so we don't know his name, but the previous household is a widow Sarah Bott age 85 and her daughter Mary Elizabeth age 51.

Not found Fanny in 1891 yet but I found a male Francis TOOMBS age 32 who was born Cosgrove, Northamptonshire, showing that there was a Toombs family from there. So perhaps Fanny was originally a Toombs?

[KiteRunner]

Oh yes, I looked at this last night and couldn't fit it in because of the district:

Marriage Jun 1888
Joseph Ayre Bott / Fanny Toombs, Potterspury district, vol 3b p 43.
Potterspury was the district that included Cosgrove, and Fanny Toombs' birth was registered in the same district Sep 1861. There is a William Bott birth registered Ashby district Sep 1891 but he has no middle name on the GRO index, so probably this is him and his parents were Joseph and Fanny, and at some point he acquired his mother's maiden name as a middle name. If you get his marriage certificate then hopefully it will give father's name as Joseph to confirm all this.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Oh yes, I looked at this last night and couldn't fit it in because of the district:

Me too! lol

[Janet]

There are many Bott in Northants, to the point where I thought it was a Northants name. There are many in Brigstock in particular, but they also spread out over Northants. Remember that parts of Leicester were Rutland and many Rutland people moved backwards and forwards over the borders of Rutland and Northants to marry and have children to return to the village from whence they came. I have many in this category.

Maybe too early but there is a William Toombs marrying 1838 Harlestone Northants. He is a Blacksmith and she is Ann Facer, a servant and fathers are John Facer and Thomas Toombs.

There is also a baptism of Amy Isabel Toombs Ashton Northants
1 December 1889, father Levi, Shoe Rivetter and living Uppington street Northampton. Mother Sarah Ann. Toombs not such a common name as Bott?

Janet

[Tom Tom]

Thank you everyone, this certainly gives me something to look into and consider.

Have sent you a PM Merry because I can't see anything with her second married name in the time you have suggested

[Tom Tom]

Hello everyone,

I have sorted this out as best I can without spending on certs as I would rather not on this line because they are only very distant.

I was unable to find William T Bott and Florence Woodwards marriage at the archives. Possible they married in non conformist or reg office or another church in the area.

However, I did find some other interesting things...

I found four or five marriages for the daughters of Joseph Ayre Botts and one of them has William Toombs Bott as a witness.

So, for the moment I am happy to believe that, as Kate suggested, Joseph Ayre Botts and Fanny Toombs are William Toombs Bott's parents, and he didn't have a middle name at birth.

I will probably end up buying the marriage cert at some point just to confirm it, but I was looking at them more out of interest as they are not blood rellies of mine.


Thanks again everyone :D