Thou shalt not marry

[Cherry Tradewell]

I remember once printing this out but I'm darned if I can find it, nor can I seem to search for it on google

Help please

[Cherry Tradewell]

Egg on my face as usual, nothing different in that

OH has just walked in the door and has immediately said "Tables of Kindred and Affinity" from the Book of Common Prayer.

[Guy]

Try
Consanguinity
Cheers
Guy

[Cherry Tradewell]

Thank you for that Guy

May I run this past you?

Henry (a widower)
marries
Edith
whose Brother Frank
marries
Henry's daughter Daisy by his first marriage

so as there's no sang there's no problem? Is that right?

[Little Nell]

There is no problem as far as I am aware.

I have a widower John who marries Emily. John's son Frank by his first wife married Emily's niece Alice. I guess the first wedding led to the next one.

So in your case Henry's daughter became his sister-in-law!

[Cherry Tradewell]

Lol Little Nell thank you.

I'm sure I don't know whether it's going to get even more complicated if and when the 1911 comes out!

Henry (actually my GGrandfather) was 20 years older than Edith. She was a mere slip of a thing at 27 when she married him. No idea whether they had any children together Perhaps she was too busy looking after her previously widowed husband's 5 children still living at home to contemplate it!

[Little Nell]

Cherry

I think quite a lot of marriages were marriages of convenience. My gt gt uncle William Broad married at the age of 69 because his sight was failing and he needed looking after. His wife Clara was 15 years younger, but seriously on the shelf. They were already connected as William's youngest sister Kate was married to Clara's brother Gerrance.

My husband also has a widower whose son married the niece of his father's 2nd wife - just as in my family mentioned earlier. I found that so confusing I had to draw a family tree to work it out on the back of an envelope.

I suppose people moved in smaller circles and if you weren't going to marry for love, at least you were marrying someone already known to you.

[Cherry Tradewell]

Just thought I'd add this for anyone else who is perplexed as it's a bit easier to understand than Guy's Consanguinity (all due respect to him of course)

Table of Kindred and Affinity (1949 version)

[Cherry Tradewell]

Cherry


I suppose people moved in smaller circles and if you weren't going to marry for love, at least you were marrying someone already known to you.

Little Nell I find it quite admirable that women in those days were prepared to subjugate their finer feelings for the necessity of a roof over their heads. It was the best they could do in the circumstances they faced. Never would it happen these days and I hope that behind closed doors they gave their grumpy old husbands what for:D

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Cherry, that 1949 version won't have an many restrictions as out Victorian (etc) ancestors would have been used to!

[Cherry Tradewell]

Thanks for pointing that out Merry. I'll get someone to go up to the loft and get Grandma's Book of Common Prayer down.

[Guy]

The reason it is easier to understand is that it only contains one set of the rules. I.E. It is the same (except for adopted son/daughter) as the table for the Book of Common Prayer (current version) as shown on my site. ;)

The problem is such rules change according to when the person was living. There is no point using current rules to an earlier relationship as they may not apply. ;)

As to your question about the relationship.
Whether there was a problem depended on a number of circumstances.
1) When did the two marriages take place?
2) Does the question apply to ecclesiastical law (church law) or to civil law?

The church views the situation like this.
Henry marries Edith therefore Henry and Edith become one person.
Frank is Edith's Brother therefore Frank is also Henry's brother.
Daisy is Henry's daughter therefore when Frank married Daisy he was actually marrying his brother's daughter which is forbidden.

If Frank and Daisy married first then Henry become Frank's father.
Edith being Frank's sister would then become Henry's son's sister i.e. Henry's daughter.
This would then be a forbidden relationship.

Cheers
Guy

[Olde Crone Holden]

Quite a few of my male relatives married twice. First time for love (I assume!).

Second time to a spare female relative - a widow or a seriously elderly spinster. A marriage of convenience indeed, but often very successful as neither partner to the marriage was expecting hearts and flowers!

OC

[Cherry Tradewell]

Thank you for explaining that concisely Guy.

I haven't a copy of either marriage cert and I'm only assuming that both couples married in a Registry Office, in common with other widowers, widows of that line.

Henry married Edith : 1895
Daisy married Frank : 1919

The widowers always seemed to marry much younger women and the widows acquired much younger men;)

I think I'll put this on the "certs pending" list !