A really stupid question!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Does anyone know what happened about people on trains on census nights?

(This is my last forlorn chance).

OC

[Grampa Jim]

I know what happened to people on Trains that night.

They got transported to somewhere else.

Seriously though, only the overnight sleepers like the London/Edinburgh, but only from whenever such things were introduced, would be affected. The Census asks for who actually slept there that night. So early dates like 1841 wouldn't probably have had night services at the extent of later ones like the 1901.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Grampa

Are you saying that in 1891, people on an overnight train would be enumerated?!

If so, where might I find a train enumeration! My man has such a common name and I have trawled the 1891, but it has occurred to me that he may have been driving a train overnight (he was supposedly a train driver, thought he was a liar, but now not so sure)

OC

[Grampa Jim]

I really don't know about the overnighters, but definitely everyone who laid their head at an address that night should have been counted.

How many overnight train services were there in 1891? Not very many I shouldn't wonder.

Are you sure your missing person hadn't gone to Africa? That was when we were strongly colonising.

[Harrys mum]

OK......who was he???

[Olde Crone Holden]

Grampa

I'm fairly sure he was perched up on the moon on census night 1891, but I keep having these little flashes of inspiration (or desperation?).

I have never believed (his) story that he was an engine driver. However, he died in lodgings and the informant (householder) said he was an Engine driver (locomotive).

I imagined this was some tall tale he had told, but I've just had a look at the census for the informant, who was himself a Train Driver. He would surely have known if my man was telling lies, being in the job himself? Also, they lived almost on top of a huge railway sidings/engine shed and I wonder if that is how my man came to be his lodger?

It's just straw-clutching really!

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Libby

Just spotted your post...

sorry about this, but it's James Holden again!

Born c1824, Wheelton Lancs, died 1898, Patricroft (Eccles) Lancs. Appears only on the 61,71 and 81 census.

61 and 71 - Engine driver. (I eventually assumed stationary engine driver in a mill or something)

81 - SHOPKEEPER!

OC

[Harrys mum]

No luck......Not that many people born in Wheelton at all.

I did try other choices.

[Guy]

I would suggest the big flaw in that thought is the census always took place on the night of Sunday to Monday morning.
As a result very few people worked all night and I doubt even if sleeper trains ran over the Sunday night, in those days.
The most likely scenario (if he was a train driver) is he stopped overnight at the train destination.

Cheers
Guy

[tinkerbe]

dear olde crone
i hve some ideas for you

did you see Sue Johnson who do you think you are?

her grandfather was train driver and she found lot of records for him that were taken by the company he worked for

could you work out by were your engine drivers lived as to what company they work for

there must be some rail buff forums out there they might be able to help

hope this helps
tink

[SuffolkSue]

Have you seen this one OC

RG12; Piece: 3155; Folio 59; Page 56 = Eccles.

This chap is a stationary engine driver, age is difficult to read, but Ancestry have him down as 60 and born in Manchester. Hes a lodger.

transcribed on A as James Halden.

[Harrys mum]

Well done Sue......that could be Holden. Is Manchester close to his birthplace???

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

What was his marital status in 1891 and what was his occ on the death cert?

*ponders on the reason I am asking these Qs when I know I won't find him* lol

[Harrys mum]

No idea. Could be M or W or U???

The husband and wife couples on the page are the same squiggle as the one year old...

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Sorry Libby, I was meaning to ask OC what his status should be! lol I think his wife Ellen from the Isle of Man was dead by 1891, but I've forgotten. I think the stationery engine driver says married, but that doesn't matter as lodgers details were often wrong. I just looked to try and find that man in 1881 and couldn't see him which could be good, but there's so much that might keep him hidden!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Merry

You have a memory like an elephant!

Tinkerbe

I have exhaustively (I think) investigated railway records - a very expensive site, which turned up nothing at all for him.

He was a widower by 1891, but may not have known this...family legend says that his sons kicked him out sometime in the 1880s (drink) and his wife Ellen died in 1888, having moved back to live next door to her sister.

Manchester would be fine as a birth place - he lived in Manchester for at least 25 years, and if in lodgings it is feasible that he said "I'm from Manchester" and the head of house thought that was good enough for a birthplace.

Guy:

Yes, I can see the flaw! As I said, straw clutching on my behalf.

I'll have a look at that Eccles bloke when Ancestry stops playing up. Thankyou!

OC

[Uncle John]

Born c1824, Wheelton Lancs, died 1898, Patricroft (Eccles) Lancs. Appears only on the 61,71 and 81 census.

61 and 71 - Engine driver. (I eventually assumed stationary engine driver in a mill or something)

81 - SHOPKEEPER!

Patricroft was a big steam loco shed right up to the end of steam in the late 1960s. For long distance drivers etc. the railways had their own lodgings at places like Kings Cross.

[Olde Crone Holden]

AAAH! THANKYOU, UJ!

Off for another look at lodgers out of area.

OC