When the certificate doesn't help much...

[Pipemma]

So the first certificate I ordered has arrived, but it's almost muddied the waters more...

My paternal great grandmother was Sarah Jane Taplin, who married John Augustus Bankins on 25 Sept 1887 in Poplar. On the marriage cert, her father is listed as William Taplin, a gardener. The bride's age is given as 25, the groom was 26.

Sarah and John Bankins appear in both the 1891 and 1901 censuses (RG12 piece 4 folio 66 p 23 and RG13 piece 9 folio 7 p 6 respectively) on which her pob is given as Winchester. However, in 1891 her age is given as 29 (John is 30) but in 1901 she is 40 and John is 39. That's as far as I can pin her down for certain. I can't find her on the 1861 or 1871 censuses, I might have found her in service in 1881 (RG11 piece 1787 folio 38 p 23).
Question 1: is Sarah likely to have lied to the registrar about her age?

According to the birth indices (and free BMD I think) there are two possible births:

Sarah Jane Taplin Dec Q 1859 Winchester 2c 95
Sarah Jane Taplin Jun Q 1862 South Stoneham 2c 53

There is also a death for a Sarah Jane Taplin Jun Q 1867 South Stoneham 2c 25, age 4.
Question 2: I presume this is the second birth above, leaving the first one as my Sarah Jane?

On the IGI a Sarah Jane Taplin was christened in St Maurice, Winchester on 8 Jul 1860 - which would possibly tie in with the first birth. Parents are given as William and Louisa Taplin - my grandmother was Katie Louise. There were a number of other younger children of William and Louisa Taplin christened over the following years but I can't find any older children in IGI. FreeBMD, otoh, has quite a few Taplin births registered in Winchester between 1855 and 1862

The only marriage I can find (FreeBMD) at the right sort of time was a Henry William Taplin to Louisa Glaspole in Winchester in 1855. IGI (M136731) shows a William Taplin marrying a Louisa Glaspole in St Lawrence, Winchester on 12 April 1855, groom age 25, bride age 21.
Question 3: given the above, do you think I've found the right family?

However, I can't find this Taplin family at all in the 1861 or 1871 censuses - can you help?

Also if he *was* actually a Henry William Taplin, but known as William, would this suggest that his father was a Henry Taplin?

Thanks a million again in advance!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Question 1: is Sarah likely to have lied to the registrar about her age?

Yes, or she might not have remembered accurately. People didn't worry about ages and dates of birth like we do today!

Sarah Jane Taplin Dec Q 1859 Winchester 2c 95
Sarah Jane Taplin Jun Q 1862 South Stoneham 2c 53

As well as the second child apparently dying, South Stoneham is not near Winchester (It's Southampton area) so you would expect the other cert to be the right one.

Was it the marriage cert you bought?

[Kit]

In answer to your first question yes she it is possible she lied about her age.

As to the rest I'm off for a look.

[Pipemma]

Yes, it was the marriage. The age discrepancies meant I couldn't pin down the birth and I hadn't found the child death at that point. South Stoneham is indeed Soton area but it's not that far from Winchester and there seem to be a few Taplin families in that general area - I wondered if Sarah had just told the London enumerator "Winchester" as the nearest big town the enumerator would know. I hoped finding out her father's name would help me find the right family in the censuses (I now at least know the family of Charles Taplin is the wrong one) - but I still can't find them

[fran]

I don't see a problem with her age.25 in1887-census 4 years later,so about 29,and next census 10 years later so about 39.Not everybody knew their exact age,also the person who gave the information may not have known.
Fran

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hre's the Taplins in 1861 (indexed as Tapler!)

RG9; Piece: 692; Folio: 108; Page: 10

William's occ doesn't fit yet though as he's a drummer in the north hants militia! lol So we need to find him later on.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I wondered if Sarah had just told the London enumerator "Winchester" as the nearest big town the enumerator would know.

Southampton is bigger than Winchester, so it would be more likely she would say Soton if she was b in South Stoneham!

Anyway, I've found her in Winchester now(if she's yours, that is!), so we need to trace her parents forward waiting for William's occ to change! (hopefully! lol)

[KiteRunner]

I wonder if she knocked a few years off her age so she could be younger than her husband instead of older than him?

I wouldn't try to find William and Louisa's marriage yet, not until you have Sarah's birth certificate which will tell you the mother's maiden name.

[Pipemma]

Fran, the question mark in my mind was that in 1901 she's listed as older than John - which would be correct if she was the one born in 1859 - but previously he's listed as the elder. Even if they got the actual age wrong, I'd have thought they would know who was the elder - unless she misled him about her age?

Merry - brill, off to look. You're right about Soton, of course. Good, elimination is useful.

KR - no, I know I haven't made the connection yet, although it looks like the 1861 Merry's found adds circumstantial evidence. The credit card's taken a hammering recently, so any more certs will have to wait a month or so ;)

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Louisa seems to have stuck the course:

Deaths Mar 1924
Taplin Louisa 87 Winchester 2c 217 (if that's her - age is good)

Maybe the army took William out of the country from time to time? Gardening was a common occ for ex-servicemen.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

They are indexed as Sopher in 1871!!

RG10; Piece: 1210; Folio: 103; Page: 27

I don't have time to go back to 1881 for the ref, but William was called Henry on that one! lol By 1881 he had left the army and was a bricklayers labourer.

In 1901 I think I saw widowed Louisa with a married daughter, but this would need checking. That time Louisa was b in Winchester I think.

Sorry, I have to dash!

[Pipemma]

Blimey! The only death I've found for Sarah Jane Bankins is 1929 - is we have that link right, then Louisa really was a game old bird!

I've just found this:
- Ancestry.co.uk

Obviously I'm in the realm of guesswork here, but if this is her and an older brother, would the implication be that they were orphans with no living rellies to take them in? Age is roughly right if she was 21 on marriage

[Kit]

wow Merry's doing well. I can't find anything, in between, the kids interrupting.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I wouldn't get too hung up on census information - don't forget the information was copied out by a clerk and he may simply have transposed the information about ages.

OC

[Pipemma]

They are indexed as Sopher in 1871!!

RG10; Piece: 1210; Folio: 103; Page: 27

OK, I think I can just about see how they get to Sopher from Taplin, but it looks like Taplin to me on the image. Transcribing these things must be a dreadful job though

The children on this one tie in with the christenings I have from IGI:

Sarah Jane 8 Jul 1860
Elizabeth 28 Aug 1863
Phillis 21 Oct 1864 (unusual spelling?)
William 23 Nov 1866
Rose 11 Sep 1868
Bessie 13 Jul 1873 (would this suggest Elizabeth died?)
Louisa 12 Sep 1875

I also misread the marriage - it's Henry William Taplin on FreeBMD and IGI, and IGI lists *his* father as William

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I was looking for Louisa Glasspool (various spellings) before her marriage. There are some possible census records in 1851 and 1841 but not with parents. Then I was looking at the IGI (having seen the marriage entry you mentioned in 1855 which said her father was John) and noticed this baptism:

Louisa Bachelor Glasspool
Birth:
Christening: 14 DEC 1835 Owslebury, Hampshire, England
Parents:
Mother: Alice Glasspool

It's not an extracted record (ie transcribed from the PRs) but could mean either the father of your Louisa wasn't a John Glasspool, or (more worryingly!) there may be two Louisa's of the same age born in the same place, or this bap is a figment of someones imagination!!!!

[fiona c]

There is an Alice Glasspool, 30 in the District house of correction, Hampshire in 1841.

HO107; Piece 410; Book: 3; Folio: 5; Page: 6

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

There is an Alice Glasspool, 30 in the District house of correction, Hampshire in 1841.

HO107; Piece 410; Book: 3; Folio: 5; Page: 6

and Louisa and Peter are in the workhouse :o

[fiona c]

There is a death in Dec 1844, Winchester, 7, 179 for a Peter Glasspoole might be the one in the workhouse as I can't find him later.

[Pipemma]

This looks like Alice in 1881:
RG11; Piece: 1232; Folio: 121; Page: 18

Strange she's listed as housekeeper although they share a surname

I also found a John Glasspool marrying a Fanny Borrough in Timsbury in 1837. I wonder if Alice and John could have been related - cousins maybe?