Edward Thomas Butler on 1871 census

[KiteRunner]

This is one of those annoying people who could be in either England or Wales, so I spend my whole time jumping from one census to the other looking for him.

Edward Thomas BUTLER - on the 1881 he is at Llanilar, Cardiganshire, with his uncle James MORGAN age 46 Gamekeeper born Cardigan Llanagan and aunt Anne Morgan age 36 born Wiltshire Malmsbury. Edward is age 18, Pupil Teacher born Shropshire Nordley (I think). Sorry if some of those Welsh placenames are wrong!

I'm trying to confirm that he is the same Edward Thomas Butler who married a relative of mine, Mildred Brown. (They lived in India after marriage so won't be on later censuses to check his birthplace.) The Times report of their marriage 22nd Nov 1889 says "the Rev Edward Thomas Butler, son of the late Joseph Butler, Cardiganshire", which is what makes me think the one I've found in 1881 is probably the right one.

So can anybody find him in 1871, please? Or please can you help find the connection making Edward the Morgans' nephew - but I have Welsh Morgans elsewhere in my tree so I know how difficult it is to get anywhere with them!

[Little Nell]

Can't find him in England or Wales, sorry!

[Smiley Sammy]

Marriages Sep 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUTLER Ann Aberystwith 11b 105
Butler Anne Aberystwith 11b 105
Morgan James Aberystwith 11b 105
RICHARDS Morgan Aberystwith 11b 105
RICHARDS Sarah Aberystwith 11b 105


Maybe one to make a note of..........

No luck finding Edward in 1871 either.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Nordley is in the parish of Alveley in Salop which would make this the birth reg of the Edward Thomas on the 1881 census:

Births Mar 1863
BUTLER Edward Thomas Bridgnorth 6a 596 (Bridgnorth correct for Alverley)

So, we need his father to be Joseph. Hmmmm.......Can't see a thing!

I tried looking for the Morgan family in 1871, but they seem to have vanished too!

I tried using FMP as England and Wales can be searched together, but that didn't help at all!! lol

[KiteRunner]

Thanks for trying. I wonder whether his family were in India in 1871 too then? I do think that Cardiganshire one is likely to be him and the James Morgan / Ann(e) Butler marriage looks promising (hi Sammy, nice to see you on here!). I'll see if I can find a likely Ann(e) Butler on the earlier censuses and hope she has a brother called Joseph!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Kite!!!!!

Scroll down here:

GENUKI : Welsh Murders Volume 1 1770-1918

until you find Joseph Butler, gamekeeper.

Wasn't that the occ of Edward's uncle?

I didn't find a JB on any census in Cardiganshire (so not many to choose from), though I know 1841 and 1851 are rubbish for lots of Wales.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

James Morgan is in the list after Joseph's bit!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Lunch.

[KiteRunner]

I've already had mine!

Thanks for that, Merry, it looks very interesting. I haven't got any murders in my tree yet!

I'd just seen the Joseph Butler 1868 death on the BMD indexes on FreeBMD (and a marriage in the same year), but I think it said he was 20 so he would be too young to be Edward's father. But I'll have to check the actual index as it could be a mistranscription.

[KiteRunner]

Having checked the image, he was 29 so it is very likely him. Wonder if I can find more info about the case online?

[KiteRunner]

Bother, searching for "Joseph Butler" Trawscoed on Google has found two pages on the BBC website but they're both in Welsh!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Hmmmm.......no sign of Joseph before 1868. Except there's a marriage in the same district in Q1 1868......

[KiteRunner]

I've found a report of the case in the Times online but it doesn't mention whether Joseph left a widow and children.

[KiteRunner]

I've managed to find Edward in 1871 at last, with James Morgan in Cardiganshire, but James's surname is given as Morgans and Edward's as Buttler, plus Edward's birthplace isn't given. Anyway, James is a gamekeeper on that one too so I'm sure this is the right family and it's the same Edward who married Mildred.
RG10; Piece: 5567; Folio: 31; Page: 5