Do I have the right 1841?

[Selena]

I feel a bit cheeky posting this long query as I am not a regular visitor, but one of your long standing members has suggested that I try FTF with this problem and I hope someone might be able to help.

I have doubts if I have the right 1841 census. My doubts are because of a change of first name and three different professions for the same man.

1841 Census St Leonards Shoreditch Middlesex
William Bateman 1821 – Printer
Jane Bateman 1816
William Bateman 1838
James Bateman 1840

Their marriage is on the IGI 1834 James William John Bateman to Jane Louisa Johnson in Spitalfields. Witness Richard Johnson. Jane’s baptism 1810 St Olaves. Southwark. No Baptism found for James Bateman.

I have an 1847 birth certificate of Ann Bateman in Bermondsey, father James William John Bateman, Tinsman and Brazier, mother Jane Louisa Bateman, formerly Johnson. Registered by the father.

I have Jane's marriage certificate in 1851 to Richard Ranoe stating Jane Louisa Bateman, formerly Johnson, widow. Note that Jane Bateman is living next door to Richard Ranoe on the 1851 just before their marriage. She has children William, Ann and Maria.

William marries in 1859 Deptford and states his father is William James Bateman, Waterman

Jane is on the 1861 with her husband Richard Ranoe and her children from the first marriage Ann and Maria have taken their stepfathers name.

William junior dies in 1870 age 35 and the informant is Jane Ranoe (his mother).

William's widow, Francis Bateman remarried 1880 to Charles Bromley and R Ranoe is a witness. R Ranoe being her stepfather in law. (!)

Maria Bateman c1843 (daughter of James & Jane Bateman) married Jesse Gregory. Their daughter Priscilla Gregory is on the 1881 with Jane & Richard Ranoe, her grandmother and stepgrandfather.

This is my evidence to claim the 1834 marriage.

So to summarise, I can’t find births or baptisms of the children on the 1841 census William and James. Cannot find Maria born 1843. James/William starts as a printer, the Tinsman, then Waterman.

Incidentally, next door on the 1841 is Samuel Bateman undertaker. I have traced him forward, same address in 1851 and living in Rotherhithe in 1861 but I can’t find a connection.

Any suggestions would be appreciated to help me be more certain I have the right family in 1841. Unfortunately I don't have ancestry to make any comparisons.

Thanks for reading,

Selena

[Elaine ..Spain]

Have found another Bateman family in 1841 (transcribed as Balsman on Ancestry)

BATEMAN, James b 1813 Ag lab
BATEMAN, Jane b 1811
BATEMAN, William b 1835
BATEMAN, Richard b 1840

address Ropemakers Fields, St Anne Limehouse, Tower Hamlets
HO107; Piece 701; Book: 9; Civil Parish: St Anne Limehouse; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 16; Folio: 9; Page: 9;

[Selena]

Elaine, thank you for that - its a new one! I'll look for a death for the Richard you posted as he is not with Jane on the 1851. Richard is a name in the family however, Jane's father and her grandson.

Unfortunately I have to hand the computer over to my daughter for homework now.

I appreciate any suggestions,

[Elaine ..Spain]

Can´t really see a death for Richard between 1841 and 1851 apart from one in Bermondsey - which is the wrong side of the river!

Deaths Mar 1844
BATEMAN Richard Earle
Bermondsey 4 26

[Christine in Herts]

Welcome to the site!

Is there anything useful on the Docklands site?

I know that with James no longer with us (a real tragedy!) things must be a bit tricky at the moment, but I believe it's still functioning, and may well have useful info for you - especially if the "waterman" bit is valid.

Christine

[Elaine ..Spain]

The Docklands Parish Registers are available on Ancestry - have checked them and cannot see anything for Bateman in the right time frame.

[Heather Positive Thinker]

Can´t really see a death for Richard between 1841 and 1851 apart from one in Bermondsey - which is the wrong side of the river!

Deaths Mar 1844
BATEMAN Richard Earle
Bermondsey 4 26

But dont the family end up in Bermondsey? Mum was born there wasnt she. Ann was born there in 1847.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I seem to remember looking at the 1851 census which was Greenwich! Had better check it again! :o

[Nichola]

The surname may have been transcribed wrong. I lost my main line for one census ,only to find them by chance under a very unusual name from Smallbones to Swallburus.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Children on 1851 were
William b 1836 St Oliver (presumably St. Olave)
Maria b 1843 St. Oliver (presuably St. Olave)
Ann b 1848 St. George - where's that?

Was thinking that St Olave was north of the river!

[Christine in Herts]

Children on 1851 were
William b 1836 St Oliver (presumably St. Olave)
Maria b 1843 St. Oliver (presuably St. Olave)
Ann b 1848 St. George - where's that?

Was thinking that St Olave was north of the river!

Isn't St George usually the Southwark one?

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

The Docklands Parish Registers are available on Ancestry - have checked them and cannot see anything for Bateman in the right time frame.

I think you mean FMP - but, no, the children's baptisms don't seem to show up there.

Christine

[Elaine ..Spain]

I think you might be right Christine - isn't it St. George's Cathedral, Southwark?

[Selena]

Hello everyone, thanks for the input. Sorry I didn't get back but the kids had a sleepover here and I couldn't get on the computer.

I had seen Richard Earle Bateman death but found a birth for him in DEC 1841 so not my chap on the census. Also I couldn't find anyone on the Docklands site that seemed relevant to this family.

The family seemed to always be south of the river, Rotherhithe, Greenwich, Lewisham so I was surprised to see the 1834 marriage in Spitalfields. However there is one direct descendant who is consistently in Greenwich on censuses but his birth turned up in Hackney 1867 mistranscribed Baitman.

I don't know what to do next to progress on this! I can only think of getting Maria's or Ann's marriages to narrow down their father. But this is moving further away from him in time, if you know what I mean. Maybe a death cert for James? Or a birth for Richard Stepney 1840.

Also Samuel Bateman the next door neighbour is still bugging me!
Any suggestions appreciated, thanks again,

Selena

[Selena]

Can anyone tell me what the profession is for James on the 1841 that Elaine kindly posted.

Thanks

Selena

[Elaine ..Spain]

Do you mean the one in post #2 - if so I added it - Ag Lab!

[Selena]

Sorry Elaine, I completely missed it!!!

I was trying to track that family forward on to 1851 to rule them in (or out) but no luck yet.

Sorry again,

Selena

[Elaine ..Spain]

No problem. I seem to remember trying to find them in the 1851 so as to try to eliminate then - but couldn't see anything.