Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Advice as to what to do next please

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Advice as to what to do next please

    Ok a bit long winded this so apologies first!

    I have searched everywhere for Alice Puttenham/Puttnam/Putnam. She was probably born around 1740, in the Aston Clinton area, Bucks. Unfortunately she doesn't seem to exist, lol!

    She had a son, Joseph Puttenham in 1761. There is no father named in the PR's, not even "illegitimate", just blank. Joseph then marries in 1785 for the first time, to Anne Flaxman/Flexman, but when he marries, he marries as Joseph Vere not Puttenham/Putnam. His children with Anne are nearly all baptised with the surname Vere "alias Putnam"

    I was told by the kind people at Bucks FHS that it was probably to do with inheritance?

    I cannot find Alice being born in Aston Clinton, however there was also a Hannah Puttenham who gave birth to an illegitimate child just before Alice did.

    There was a George & Elizabeth Puttenham/Putnam who had a lot of children in the village, I think I have tracked their marriage down to Aldbury Herts, in 1731. I think these could be her parents. They were the parents of Hannah. I have looked there, no baptism for Alice. I am almost as certain as I can possibly be that this is the right couple, especially now I have noticed a Joseph Casemore in Aston Clinton around that time.

    I also found two baptisms for Hannah, parents George & Elizabeth, both 6 months apart in Aston Clinton in 1739/40. There is no death for a Hannah in between. I am thinking that the Vicar wrote Hannah on one of the entries that should have been Alice, & it is merely an error on his part.

    What do you think?

    There is a will at Bucks RO, for a George Puttnam (the elder) Yeoman, made in 1780, probate 1800. Do you think it would be worth my getting a copy of this will just in case it may throw a bit of light on the puzzle?

    It is a struggle to get the info because they lived on the Bucks/Herts border so I am having a job tracking them down.

    Any ideas appreciated as to what to do next.

    Thanks

    Joanie

  • #2
    Can you get to the record office easily? I would be looking for poor law or manorial records. Alice might have been in a long term stable relationship - just didn't bother going to church. Settlement examinations might shed light on Alice's life.

    Have you found any other Vere/Puttenhams? Sometimes aliases last for more than a century.
    Phoenix - with charred feathers
    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Phoenix

      I can't get to Bucks RO very easily, but I intend to go there as soon as I am able to (need to plan a couple of days in the area).

      What would manorial records contain that may help? I thought about settlement records but can't remember if I checked them before as it's been a long time since I last went, & I wasn't sure what to look for. Any ideas?


      Joanie

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you allowed for the old year/new year calendar change? Were the two Hannahs definitely baptised six months apart, or was it more than that in real terms, remembering old style years ran from April to March, not from January to December.

        In my own experience, the only time a Vicar makes no remark - not illegitimate, not reputed father etc - is when the reputed father is highly born.

        The Vicar wants to hedge his bets by not putting "bastard" next to the child of a local bigwig who MAY claim the child as his own at a later date. Equally, he doesn't want to put the bigwig's name in the margin, just in case he isn't the father.

        If the father was known to be Joe the pig man, the Vicar would not hesitate to put "bastard" or "illegitimate" next to the child's name!

        Are there any posh Veres locally?

        OC

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi OC

          I have also checked the BT's for A.C. as well, they were the same :(

          1739

          July 8 Hannah dau of George & Eliz Putnam

          Feb 28 Hannah Daur of George & Eliz. Putnam

          1740 begins in April.

          Do you want me to try & scan the image & put it on here?

          There are only a few Veres, they lived the other side of Aylesbury, so it's unlikely, but possible. There are no wills for Veres that I could find.

          There are the Veres Earls of Oxford of course, lol!!

          I don't think that's likely though

          Joanie

          Comment


          • #6
            The Rothschilds also lived very close by, in fact they had a dispute about some access to land with a Putnam family in nearby Pitstone I think it was.

            Family rumour has it that one of the Putnam females was set up in business by the Rothschild family as an apprentice dressmaker. Would there be any records about that do you suppose?



            Last edited by Joan of Archives; 15-10-08, 21:38.

            Joanie

            Comment


            • #7
              Sorry, just read your first post again. Yes, definitely get the Will, you don't know WHAT delights it may contain!

              It does seem likely the Vicar just made a mistake between Hannah and Alice, although those baptisms are worryingly close together. You are absolutely sure there isn't another couple called George and Elizabeth?

              If the rumour is true that the Rothschilds gave her an apprenticeship, I think the only way you would trace this is through the Rothschild Family Papers (if they exist!). If they were covering up a misdemeanour by one of their sons, it would have all been done most discreetly, I think.

              I am worried that the Vicar has put no name for the putative father, nor made any comment. He must have been very sure she was not going to claim parish relief for the child, which suggests high connections.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Funnily enough there's an entry for a child of Richard Stratford & Alice just above the 2nd Hannah entry; I wondered if Vic was having an off day, lol!

                I haven't got a copy of Joseph's birth entry, our LDS doesn't have a photocopy fiche reader machine, in fact it is very antiquated!



                It just read :
                April 15th 1761
                Joseph son of Alice Puttenham


                Joanie

                Comment


                • #9
                  Joan

                  Can you just confirm that the above image is the church register and not the BT?

                  From the image above, doesn't look like the Vicar went in for "comments" at all and the writing appears very uniform.

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry OC I was distracted for a mo!

                    Yes it was from the Parish Register held at Bucks RO. I have access to the BT's at the LDS at the moment, I ordered them in case there were any other clues

                    It's quite interesting there was a chap called A Vere Woodman & he seems to have done a lot of research on Bucks families. Sadly he died in 1966 :(

                    Joanie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ooo OC I think mine are linked to this lot if that helps :



                      Some were involved in the Salem witch trials but I try to forget that bit lol!

                      :D

                      Joanie

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, if this were my hunt, that Will would be next on the list. At least it will help to harden up what you DO know, lol!

                        OC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yep I reckon there might be a clue there somewhere.........if only it mentions "To my daughter Alice I leave my worldly goods, sorry the Vicar got your name wrong when we baptised you" I will be happy, lmho!

                          :D

                          Joanie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LOL Joan! I often wish for things like that, usually in vain!

                            Thing is, they wouldn't even have known the Vicar got it wrong. The Congregation of a church did not ever have the opportunity to look at the register.

                            Also, the fact that the writing is so uniform over the year, makes me suspicious that it was all entered at once, rather than on the day, and copied from notes the Vicar kept in his diary!

                            Maybe the Will will say something like "and to my cousin George and his wife Elizabeth and their daughter Hannah" lol! Then you're in trouble!

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lol OC !

                              Well it costs £3.50 per copy will so I might as well. The last time I went to the Bucks RO it cost about £7 in car parking charges at Aylesbury so I can get 2 wills for that instead!

                              ;)

                              Joanie

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I love Wills. I think they are fantastic value for money. My best one named 37 relatives and gave me all the daughters' married names, yippee, and the names of the grandchildren.

                                At £3.50, that's less than 10p per person!

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Though George Puttnam "the elder" who died in 1780 might be Hannah's brother if their father had died before that and Hannah's brother George had a son George! Do you have an age for the one who died in 1780 from the burial register?
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi Kite

                                    George senior mage the will in 1780, probate was 1800.

                                    No there is no age but there was a George buried 31/12/1799 so I think he is the main suspect!

                                    George (the son) died in 1836 age 73. I think he was the product of George senior's 2nd marriage to Ann in 1757.

                                    Last edited by Joan of Archives; 16-10-08, 00:29.

                                    Joanie

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      This might be a silly question but have you looked at the public member trees on Ancestry? Because there's an arthur366 with a Joseph Puttenham born 1761 in Aston Clinton, father given as James Vere, mother Alice Puttenham.
                                      Might be worth contacting the owner of the tree if you haven't already done so.
                                      He is down as marrying a Sarah Badrick, though. He has a date of birth of 1735 for Alice.

                                      Zoe

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Well done, Zoe, that certainly looks to be worth following up.

                                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                        Thing is, they wouldn't even have known the Vicar got it wrong. The Congregation of a church did not ever have the opportunity to look at the register.
                                        Are you sure, OC?

                                        I have a case where a child was accidentally registered with her mother's maiden name (she wasn't illegitimate - the parents had been married for years, and she had several older siblings).

                                        A few months later the Vicar put a correction in the register, signed by him and the churchwardens, so somebody must have noticed the mistake.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X