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  • Charles Jones

    Good Morning All

    I am hoping that you all dont mind me adding my biggest brickwall in my tree in the hope that someone of some of you may be able to provide some guidance that may help me. I apologise now if this goes on to read like war & peace but want to make sure I get everything down.

    I have been trying to research my great grandfather for the past 4 years as my nan would love to know about her dad's family but unfortunately all she knows is that he was Charles Henry Jones, possibly from Wales (family rumour is that family further back owned schools in Wales....im not sure this is believable lol). Nan says that Charles' parents disowned him when he married his wife Harriet as they felt that she was 'benneath' them and made him choose between the family or Harriet. He married Harriet. Nan says she never met her grandparents and Charles refused to talk about them. All she remembers is that he did have 2 sisters, Nora(h) and Beatrice and a brother Arthur because they occasionally visited so she knows they existed.

    Nan, who doesnt even know her grandparents names, remembered they owened a Painting & Decorating shop in Sheffield, possibly on Wood Street. I have tried various trade directories with no Jones' who were painters and not even that address coming up.

    She doesnt remember anything about Nora(h) or Arthur's family but remembers that Beatrice had an illegitimate daughter called Ethel who married an Ernest Booth. They had a son called Desmond and when Ernest died, Desmond spent all the inheritance and Ethel killed herself!!

    Ok...done with Nan's memories...heres what I have got so far....

    I have Charles Henry Jones' marriage to Harriet Eastwood. They married at St John the Baptist, Owlerton, Sheffield on the 17th December 1917. He doesnt name a father! I know that usually means illegitimate, nan is adamant that he didnt name a father because the father (and mother) had already disowned him! I am still keeping the illeigitmacy option open at the back of my mind. Witnesses were a James Dolphin (a neighbour I think) and a Mary Jones (cant help thinking a relation but Jones is so common).

    Charles Henry Jones died on the 16th March 1941 aged 46 in Sheffield. Occupation, Steel Examiner.

    With no leads at all, I decided to have a look at the siblings she remembered. I have found nothing at all on Arthur. But with Beatrice, I found the marriage of her illegitimate daughter Ethel to Ernest Booth. Again, St John the Baptist, Sheffield on the 30th March 1925. Ethel gives her address at time of 174 Cuthbert Bank Road which was next door to Charles' address on his marriage cert in 1917. She obviously doesnt give a father's name but one of the witnesses was Emily Rosewarne which firstly, didnt mean anything to me. I found nothing more on Beatrice.

    Going through St John the Baptist parish records for marriages at a last straw, I found a marriage of Norah Jones to a John William Rosewarne on the 16th July 1906. Norah was living at 58 Burton Street, Sheffield at the time of marriage and she named her father as Henry Jones, Painter! I then looked for baptisms of Rosewarne children in the same parish records and their first child was Emily Rosewarne born 22nd February 1907.

    I feel like I have finally found the Norah nan remembers with the info from both marriage certs but nothing I have found has come up on census.

    I have searched and searched but cannot find anything that would suggest my family on the census apart from a William Jones, Painter, who on the 1901 census is in Cheadle, Lancashire, but born Sheffield. On previous census, he is with a wife Mary (from Charles' marriage cert??) and they had numerous children with ones called Norah, Beatrice and Arthur...no Charles! I cannot find this family on the 1901, I think the girls were in service by this time.

    I am sorry for the essay I have just written, just wanted to get it all down. Hope I have covered everything. If anyone has any suggestions at all, I would love to hear them.

    Kind Regards

  • #2
    Hi,
    You need to find the birth details of Charles Henry which would be c1895 if he was 46 in 1941 when he died. I had a quick look on Ancestry BMD and found
    Charles Henry Jones Seffield Mar 1892 Mar quarter vol 9c, page 492 although the year is not right it could be him.
    Also what age was Norah on the marriage cert? We could look for her birth record to establish her parents names.
    Margaret

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    • #3
      Hi Margaret
      I think I had seen that Charles Jones and disregarded him for some reason. I thought (and could be wrong) that there was a Charles Jones on the 1901 born aprox 1892 with parents so disregarded him. Will check that one out again though.

      Norah was 22 on the marriage cert so should be circa 1884.

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      • #4
        Claire, Have you got the 1891 census ref for the Jones family? I can't find them.

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        • #5
          It's OK, I've found them now! lol

          RG12; Piece: 3830; Folio 15; Page 26

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          • #6
            Lol, Merry, was just about to say it was the guy at 5 Ct 10, Neepsend Lane in Sheffield. Neepsend is a district which isnt too far from Owlerton (St John the Baptist parish church).

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            • #7
              What age does Charles Henry give on the marriage certificate? does it correspond with the age at death?
              Can you tell me the reference for the censuses you have found William Jones and his family on?
              Margaret

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              • #8
                Sorry disregard my question re the census ref. Now see the earlier post

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                • #9
                  Ok, I'm getting somewhere here, I think!


                  The William Jones you found alone on the 1901 census says he is single (assuming I'm looking at the same one!). The same man is alone on the 1891 census too, still saying he is single here:

                  RG12; Piece: 2805; Folio 62; Page 31

                  So, he's not the husband you found with Mary and the other children in 1891.

                  Now, is this Mary with a new hubby (John Brooks) and perhaps her prev husband is dec'd?? (we hope! lol......Oh, that sounded unkind.....you know what I mean!)

                  RG13; Piece: 4354; Folio: 75; Page: 8
                  Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 15-10-08, 10:02.

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                  • #10
                    The marriage cert is at home and pretty sure he was either 21 or 22 on it. It did correspond with age at death and a circa birth date of around 1895.

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                    • #11
                      Just checking.....is this the chap you found in 1901?

                      RG13; Piece: 3300; Folio: 76; Page: 46

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                      • #12
                        haha, lol Merry, I knew what you meant

                        Now that does look promising and that Charles would tie in with the 1892 birth of a Charles Henry Jones. Maybe old Charlie Boy knocked a few years of his age when he married Harriet? A possibility, nothing shocks me with this family.

                        I really dont know why I so convinced myself that the 1901 William Jones in Cheadle was my guy. Must have got overly excited that he was a painter from Sheffield lol.

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                        • #13
                          Well, he ought to be alive in order to disown his son, so it's not a perfect scenario if he's dead!

                          Maybe it was the stepdad who did the disowning?

                          Trouble is there's 101 possibilites! At neast you have something condrete to link to. Maybe the 1911 census for Norah etc might tie something together?

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                          • #14
                            Yes, Merry, thats the guy in Cheadle I found

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                            • #15
                              I wonder what the address is on the 1892 birth cert and if it would tie in with the 1891 address?

                              Is Sheffield a friendly reg office??!

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                              • #16
                                Your right Merry, the possibilites are endless at the moment. Feel so near but yet so far. At least I can disregard the Cheadle man now lol. I have thought for a while that maybe the 1911 census is my only option now. I could get the birth cert for the Charles born 1892 in the hope he did knock a few years off his age.

                                The step-dad disowning him or the other way round even sounds a good possibility too.

                                I dont think we have any likes to schools in Wales lol.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I am guilty of actually never using Sheffield Reg Office for my certs. I ordered my own birth cert a few years ago from them as my original is lost and they seemed friendly. Is it worth ringing or emailing them? I guess I would still have to pay the £7 for them to check?

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                                  • #18
                                    You may still have ancestors who owned schools in Wales as we haven't got back very far yet!
                                    I think you will need to pay £7 as you don't have anything for a reference check which would possibly only cost £3 as you get a refund if it's not the one you want.

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                                    • #19
                                      I guess I would still have to pay the £7 for them to check?

                                      Depends what you ask them!

                                      Having worked backwards, Mary Jone's maiden name seems to be Buxton and she married William (no middle name unfortunately ) in 1865 in Sheffield.

                                      This is going on the fact that William was married and in Worksop in 1871 as a lodger and there's a Mary Jones (widow!! lol) living with her parents (Geo and Eliz Buxton) and a dau Gertrude aged one who is with William and Mary on the 1881 aged 11.

                                      So......if the mmn for the Charles Henry cert in 1892 was Buxton then you would know it was a child of the same family (If I've done it right, that is!)

                                      You could send Sheffield a chq and ask them to send you the cert IF the mmn is Buxton. They should return the chq if it isn't. Send an SAE too.

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                                      • #20
                                        Gut instinct tells me you're looking at this family who get split up sometime after the 1891. All the girls are on 1901 as servants

                                        1881

                                        14 CT 4 H Shepherd St

                                        Wm Jones 37 Painter Sheffield
                                        Mary wife 32
                                        Ellen 13
                                        Gertrude 11
                                        Arthur 5

                                        RG11; Piece: 4646; Folio: 15; Page: 23


                                        1891

                                        5 ct 10 Neepsend(?) lane
                                        william Jones 48 Painter (house) Sheffield
                                        Mary 44
                                        Arthur 15
                                        Norah 9
                                        Beatrice a 7
                                        Mary a 2
                                        Gertrude 21
                                        RG12; Piece: 3830; Folio 15; Page 26


                                        1901
                                        RG13; Piece: 4354; Folio: 75; Page: 8.

                                        John Brooks 56
                                        Mary Brooks 52
                                        Charles Jones 9 stepson


                                        crown copyright from the National Archives
                                        Zoe in London

                                        Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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