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Mystery Men - no. 2

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  • Mystery Men - no. 2

    Following on from my no. 1 thread, Mystery Man no. 2 is less of a shadowy character but information still seems thin on the ground.

    My mother has told me from a very young age that my 4 x great grandfather on her grandmother's side was a Cornish sea captain by the name of Penleggen. It seems Chinese whispers were at work as I've found a trail through the censuses, since we already knew his daughter's name and who she married and the female line thereon. It seems his name was John Penlig(g)an/Penlig(g)en/Penligon (depending on the source - but NOT Penhaligon) and he was from Plymouth, not Cornwall. Going by the censuses, he would have been born around 1809, and his wife was Elizabeth, born in Weymouth around 1811. However, he himself only features on the 1861 census when he, his wife and 2 youngest children (along with a handful of others) were aboard his ship, the Royal George, of which he was Chief Officer, which was moored at Barking for census night.

    I also found him once on Google books (and of course can't find him again) as an Acting Chief Officer in the the Plymouth (?) coastguard in 1857.

    The IGI lists a John Penligan who married a Mary Turner in Stoke Damerel, Devon in 1803, so I'm surmising that might be his parents, but have nothing to substantiate that. The 1861 census also lists an unmarried Mary-Ann Penligan, age 50, in service as a cook in Maidstone - a sister?

    That, however, is as far as I've been able to get, and I'm hitting a brick wall because the key info is prior to 1837. So questions:

    1. Any suggestions for where to go next would be welcome (I have already mentally noted Kew and Greenwich for next time I'm in the UK)
    2. I don't know whether he was merchant or Royal Navy. "Royal George" comes up on Google quite a lot as the name of various RN ships, but the dates don't fit with 1861 (either decommissioned before this date or commissioned afterwards). Any way of easily finding out?
    3. Would a Chief Officer by definition be a master mariner? i.e. would the Nat. Maritime Museum be likely to have a master's certificate for him? A record of service?

    (BTW I will probably in due course see if I can get hold of a birth certificate for one of his younger children as they were born after 1837)

  • #2
    I would definately get his children's birth cert to find out what his wife's maiden name was - his marriage when you can confirm it is the right one might help with telling you where he was from or who the witnesses were.



    He is still alive in 1881

    Class: RG11; Piece: 2130; Folio: 81; Page: 18

    Occupation is coastguard pensioner

    Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

    Comment


    • #3
      I think he died between 1881 and 1891 because by the time of the 1891 census Elizabeth i s a widow boarding with a vicar.

      Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tom Tom View Post
        I would definately get his children's birth cert to find out what his wife's maiden name was - his marriage when you can confirm it is the right one might help with telling you where he was from or who the witnesses were.



        He is still alive in 1881

        Class: RG11; Piece: 2130; Folio: 81; Page: 18

        Occupation is coastguard pensioner
        Oh well done and thanks! I had already found Elizabeth boarding in her home town in 1891. Where did you find the info above? (I'm a bit of a noob to all this)

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you seen this on TNA?

          Image details

          Description Name Penligan, Frederick John Tremouth
          Official Number: 48103
          Place of Birth: Plymouth, Devon

          Date 8 January 1840
          Catalogue reference ADM 188/18
          Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
          Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
          Piece 47801 - 48400
          Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference

          Copyright of The National Archives

          Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi,

            Ancestry have transcribed it as Plenligen.

            Do you have access to ancestry?

            Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Tom View Post
              Have you seen this on TNA?

              Image details

              Description Name Penligan, Frederick John Tremouth
              Official Number: 48103
              Place of Birth: Plymouth, Devon

              Date 8 January 1840
              Catalogue reference ADM 188/18
              Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
              Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
              Piece 47801 - 48400
              Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference

              Copyright of The National Archives
              Hi again Tom

              Yes I do have access to ancestry, although the search function isn't always as user-friendly as I'd like. And it often kills BMD or some other option on me without warning. Are those in the military section? I think I have seen the above somewhere in my travels, and mentally noted it (and promptly forgotten it) to pursue. This is the son of the John I'm after - my 3 x great grandmother was the eldest daughter, John (this one above) followed in 1840, Catherine in 1846 and William in 1849. The birth intervals would suggest to me the periods John Sr was at sea.

              From what I've seen I suspect that one of the sons (William?) moved up to Hull when he married and there's a branch of the family there? I'm not as far as that yet though - want to track down my "Cornish sea captain" first ;)

              Comment


              • #8
                Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle etc (Portsmouth, England), Saturday, October 16, 1858; Issue 3080




                Copyright Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle

                Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                Comment


                • #9
                  The:

                  The Morning Chronicle (London, England), Saturday, January 11, 1862; Issue 29644

                  announces that Mr John Penligan, Chief Acting Officer was removed from Barking Creek to Beer.

                  Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So he was Coastguard rather than RN or Merchant Navy?

                    Where did you (and hence can I!) find those articles?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well he was at that time.

                      I also saw an announcement about a journey of Capt. Penlegan who went from Hull to ??? (It's on the turn of the page) and that he went past Copenhagen.

                      This was 13 May 1883 so presume this is the one mentioned earlier, your ones son?


                      I have access to the Thomas Gale database of newspapers through my college where I am studying. At one point they did have a free trial so if you google them you might find it.

                      Tom

                      Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sounds like it, doesn't it? I'll have to have a google of that next weekend - thanks!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It takes forever and a day to download, but have a look at this page:

                          The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Digital Microfilm

                          ADM 175 relates to coastguard records and you can download them for free. You had to be recommended to get into the coastguards. My ancestor was a lieutenant on half pay, but I don't think that everyone came from the navy.
                          Phoenix - with charred feathers
                          Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That's very interesting - who would make the recommendation? Would that suggest he'd been in the RN or merchant navy first? How would I found out which?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On the 1861 did you look at the description of the enumeration district? I only ask this because, although I have several mariners, I only recently worked out that you could get extra info about the vessel from that. (Apologies if you already knew that)

                              It says that the Royal George was a Coast Guard Watch vessel and that John Penligon was the Master

                              There are some useful bits of info here about Coast Guards

                              Welcome to our new location at www.glamorganfamilyhistory.co.uk!

                              Detecting your browser settings

                              Jackie
                              Jackie

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Those links look like they could be handy, but I'm missing something on the census, I can't see where the extra info is?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  At the top of the screen, under the red A for National Archives, are a series of links, followed by a description that isn't. Click on the last link. Then click on "view description of enumeration district. If there are more than one, chose the description from the previous screen.
                                  Phoenix - with charred feathers
                                  Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                                    At the top of the screen, under the red A for National Archives, are a series of links, followed by a description that isn't. Click on the last link. Then click on "view description of enumeration district. If there are more than one, chose the description from the previous screen.
                                    Sorry, you've lost me :o but then it's late and past my bedtime

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      If you get up the actual image of the 1861 census, above the image it says

                                      You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1861 England Census > Essex > Vessels > District Royal George (1)

                                      Click on the word Vessels

                                      Scroll down to District Royal George (1) and click on "View description of enumeration district"

                                      Jackie
                                      Jackie

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Crumbs, you wouldn't stumble on that by accident, would you? Thanks!

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