Maurice/Moritz Chryst/Christ

[Icklec]

Hello All

I have been stuck with a huge brickwall for the past 3 and a half years and even though I am pretty sure it will never be knocked down, thought I would ask you guys if you had any guidance or tips I could try to solve this.

My great x 3 grandfather was Maurice Chryst (Moritz Christ on his marriage in Sheffield. He was born circa 1830. He first appears in England on the 1851 census where he is a 21 year old 'private' in what appears to be an Army Barracks in Liverpool with other Polish people. He married in 1858 in Sheffield to Ellen Beckitt and the family have lived there ever since. He names his father as Philip Christ on the marriage cert. Because all census' he states born Poland or Poland/Austria and nothing more, I have no idea on how to go any further back in my research.

I have tried the National Archives for any naturalisation records but nothing exists for him. I am not sure what other avenues I could try now.

I have traced Maurice and all his children to the present day.

If anyone has any advice or tips, I would be most appreciative.

Regards
Claire

[margaretmarch]

Hi,
Have you seen this site Polish Connections - History. Also there are 23 people named Chryst on the IGI for Poland. I expect you've looked at those though. Just thought they might give an idea of where in Poland there might be a concentration of people with the same name.
Margaret

[Icklec]

Hi Margaret

I havnt seen that website but I will have a look now at it. I have seen the names on the IGI, wish I could prove a connection to them.

I wondered if anyone knew if there were army records of ship arrival records for Liverpool around the late1840's to 1851 that could be checked for my ancestor?

Regards, Claire

[margaretmarch]

That's a good thought, unfortunately I don't know about any lists like that. My approach would be to find out more about what the unit was and why it was there in Liverpool. It appears to be a Cavalry Unit and I found this site that tells more about the Polish Cavalry. NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Polish cavalry
I also looked on Rootsweb and found several people who had Chryst in their trees so it may be worthwhile contacting them if you haven't already done.

I would try to find out more on a general theme so I could then try to pin down where in Poland the family might have originated, which would give you a better chance of maybe finding records either from military sources or from local records.
Margaret

[Icklec]

Margaret,

Many thanks for those suggestions, I will have a look into them all. I will also have a look at the link re the Polish Cavalry.

Many thanks for your time.

[margaretmarch]

Hi,
Another search produced this site which explains about registrations in Poland and how you might search. Genealogy & Poland - a guide
Margaret

[Little Nell]

You might find something useful about passengers' lists here

Search the archives | Migration records

[Icklec]

Hello
Just back in from work and tea. Thank you Margaret and Little Nell for those websites. I will also have a read through those.

Many Thanks

[Jessbowbag]

Have you had a look in our WIKI?

We have some info for Poland- you might find something useful

Poland - Family Tree Forum

[Icklec]

Hello Jess
Apologies for the late reply, had to go offline. I havnt tried the Wiki yet. Still learning my way around

I will have a read through the Polish info.

Many thanks for the help.

[margaretmarch]

Hi,
I am intrigued by your problem. I've looked at the 1851 census and there are 108 Polish military men at 20 Cherry Lane Liverpool. Why were they there? somewhere there must be a record of what that was all about.
What was this address? is it still a 'barracks', was it one then or just a very large boarding house?
Unless your ancestor 'jumped ship' as it were, they must have stayed a while for him to be able to remain in the UK and then marry.
Margaret

[Icklec]

Hi Margaret
I hadnt counted all the men at 20 Cherry Lane on the 51 census but knew it was a lot of them. All of them just said born Poland as well! When Maurice/Moritz married in 1857 Sheffield, they had three witnesses, all Polish! I have tried to trace those three men also but no leads came of it. Also, the lady he married, Ellen Beckitt, her sister Elizabeth also married a Polish man in 1855 in Sheffield, he mysteriously disapears before the 61 census and is never seen on any record ever again, along with a son they had.

All those questions you ask, I have thought them too. I feel there is a record or something out there but its what, how to access it and would it tell me any more than what I have.

I have the feeling of your so close but yet so far. I also feel that with another member of my family but that is a complete different story

[margaretmarch]

I have found a military history site with a forum so I've posted up a question to see if anyone knows anything about why this company of Polish soldiers is in the UK in 1851. It's Napoleonic times!
The other thing I thought about was if your ggg grandfather says at times he was from Austria it ought to be possible to narrow down the region of Poland he came from, which might help when linked to his surname.
I really do think a more general and lateral search is necessary at the moment with the idea of narrowing it down when more information is found. It's not going to be as straight forward as looking at census or BMD records at this stage.
Perhaps the other Polish one that disappeared went back to Poland? I wonder if there are lists of passengers going to the Continent or if it's possible to look for him and his family in Poland from 1861 onwards. A lot of Poles went to USA, have you looked at that possibility.
I wonder too if there is scope for finding out what paperwork was needed for the Polish to stay here at that time - naturalisation?
I will keep thinking and looking for you and let you know if I find anything.
Margaret

[Icklec]

I really appreciate the interest you have taken in my gx3 grandfather. Thank you for posting the message on the military website forum.

He did say on one census he was naturalised and I went to kew a couple of years ago to see if any records existed, unfortunately not. He either lied or they were destroyed in WW2.

My Chryst family are the only one that came and still in the UK. I have noticed on ancestry that other Chryst's are in the USA.

I do think the other Polish guy went back to Poland and took the son with them. His wife lived with a guy called Taylor after the 61 census as his wife but only actually married him in 1899. There are passenger lists available leaving the Uk from 1890 but nothing before, I dont think.

Many thanks again for all your help.

[kylejustin]

he might have been from silesia if he said austria or poland in the census for a birth place. my german ancestors anglicised themselves into australian society, but kept up with what was going on in the homeland.

my ancestors on their death certs have 'germany' as their birthplace.
but on the kids birth certs said 'posen, prussian poland' and 'berlin, prussia'.
so, it gives clues, as to who owns it, and where the territory is.

did he leave a will? it could mention family that might be easier to trace in poland or austria

[Icklec]

Hi Kylejustin
I applied to the probate people in York with cheque for search on will for Maurice as got his death cert and details but it came back with nothing held unfortunately.

I do think Germany could be involved here as I have googled the name Moritz he called himself on his marriage and it all says it is German. I can see that he probably Anglisised his name to Maurice to fit in more.

Thank you for the info on Silesia, certainly something else to look at.

Regards

[kylejustin]

i hope you find something, it's really difficult researching ancestors once eastern europe becomes involved. with the governments not releasing the records, and borders changing every 10 minutes since the 1600's. and then ther's communism.