john spencer phillips

[valfly]

I am trying to trace the birthof my g.grandfather John spencer Phillips who died aged 85 In West Ham in 1924. He was apparently born in 1839/40 so we are led to believe in Westminster. He married in 1867 in Stepney under the name of John Phillips (father William Phillips)his daughter my grandmother Elizabeth Phillips was born in 1870, however when she marries in 1891 her name has changed to Elizabeth Maria Spencer, (father James Spencer) throughout his life my grandfather was sometimes known as Spencer and sometimes as Phillips and other times as Spencer Phillips, any ideas? was Spencer perhaps his mother's name maybe he was illegitimate - any help would be appreciated.

Val flynn

[Elaine ..Spain]

First of all, welcome to Family Tree Forum.

On the marriage certificate, what is the occupation of John and his father William?

[Elaine ..Spain]

... and have you found the family in the 1871 census, if so can you give us the reference please.

[valfly]

First of all, welcome to Family Tree Forum.

On the marriage certificate, what is the occupation of John and his father William?

William's occupation was carpenter - John was a Mariner - any ideas of what to do next

Val

[valfly]

1871 census

... and have you found the family in the 1871 census, if so can you give us the reference please.

do not have reference of census but it was St. Ann's Parish Limehouse, east london, borough of Tower Hamlets address Northey Street, if you would prefer I will get census reference if this is easier, thanks

val

[Elaine ..Spain]

It's OK - have found it - just for reference
RG10; Piece: 551; Folio: 33; Page: 15;

John S Phillips 31 born 1840 Westminster - occupation labourer
Elizabeth Phillips 32 born 1839 Elford Essex
Elizabeth M Phillips 1 born 1870 Limehouse
Lucy Stuart 14 - boarder

[Elaine ..Spain]

I am getting confused on this one as I am trying to verify the information you have working back from 1901.

You say in your initial post:
your grandmother Elizabeth Phillips was born in 1870 - changed her name to Elizabeth Maria Spencer when she married in 1891.

checking on freeBMD the possible marriage partners are John Playford or Robert Smith

You then say that throughout his life your grandfather was sometimes knows as Spencer and at other times Phillips. Surely your grandfather is the person who married Elizabeth Phillips/Spencer - either John Playford or Robert Smith - or am I missing something here and getting myself totally confused!

[Lyn A]

I, too am confused......can't see where you get the John SPENCER Phillips from. He married a s John Phillips.....no 2nd name...is only listed as John S Phillips on census.


What was the name of John Phillips' wife? It may help find her on the census.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Val, how do you know that Elizabeth Maria Spencer was previously known as Elizabeth Phillips?

[Lyn A]

They were still Phillips in 1881....John is older, though...born 1833

RG11; Piece: 1711; Folio: 34; Page: 57

[Elaine ..Spain]

.. and 1891
RG12; Piece: 1323; Folio 63; Page 26

.. and 1901
RG13; Piece: 1572; Folio: 90; Page: 31

[kylejustin]

is it possible spencer was a middle name? they dont pop up in the census much, and he very well may have left it out when he was married.

my 2nd great grandfather married as william, his middle name. his first name was frederick, but the community called him william.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Thanks for your pm Val. I am going to reply on here as others may be able to help with your problem.

I still cannot see any reference to a John SPENCER Phillips on the census - he seems to have been known as Phillips throughout his life. Have you got any documents where the middle name of Spencer has been included?

You say that your grandmother Elizabeth Phillips was born in 1870 but in 1891 when she marries she changes her name to Elizabeth Maria Spencer - what evidence do you have that Elizabeth Phillips and Elizabeth Maria Spencer is the same person?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

He's John S Phillips at death.