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  • Baptised Twice????

    I have a general query regarding baptisms...

    Has anybody ever heard of or found anyone in their research that has been baptised twice?

    My reason for asking is as follows:

    In my tree I have an Andrew Wortley b. abt 1642
    IGI gives a baptism date of 19 Jun 1642 in Castor, Northampton and his parents were John and Elizabeth Wortley.

    I've had cause to search the parish records for Gainsborough (at Gainsborough Library) as part of my hunt for Wortleys and found in their records Andrew Wortley was baptised 4 March 1642 and his father was John Wortley no mother mentioned.

    Either this is coincidence and there were two Wortley family's, they both had sons Andrew baptised within a reasonably short space of time, both with a John Wortley as father or they are the same person....
    One explanation I suppose being he was baptised first where the father came from and secondly where the mother came from.
    I haven't had chance to check the IGI record against the parish record as yet.

    Sorry for the lengthy explanation, just wondering if anyone had come across a "double" baptism or am I completely barking up the wrong tree........

    A very confused (for the minute anyway!)
    BourneGooner

  • #2
    I do have a case that appears to be a double baptism, yes, but you do have to be very careful to rule out the existence of another family with the same names. In my case, I'm pretty sure there wasn't one, having checked the censuses and BMD records.

    Isn't Gainsborough in Lincs? How close is it to Castor?

    You'll need to have a good search of the PRs for both places before concluding it's the same family.

    Comment


    • #3
      You often find an entry giving the date of a private baptism and then "first brought to church" or something similar at a later date - usually if it was feared that the baby wouldn't live very long. But this sounds a bit different.
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi BourneGooner

        It could be either of your explanations. I don't know the geography of that area, are they near to each other?

        I would want to look at the baptism entry in Castor parish registers and also see if there are any siblings baptised in either parish. Also look for the marriage of the parents to see if there were two John Wortley marrying and having families.
        Sue

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi I know this doesn't answer your question about being baptised twice but I noticed that the IGI baptism is a submitted entry and gives Andrew's parents as John Wortley & Elizabeth Palmer. There is also a submitted marriage entry for John Wortley & Elizabeth Pallmer on 27th Nov 1628 at Gainsborough. If you scroll down and click on batch no and then put in the name Palmer lots of marriages are listed. Doing the same for Wortley only brings up the 1628 marriage.
          Moggie

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the reply's
            One of my main problems is, this was "second hand" information that I'm attempting to clarify, searching the original records. And I've always struggled with the fact Gainsborough is in Lincolnshire and Castor in Northamptonshire, their quite some distance apart even by today's standards let alone in the 1600's.
            Looks as though it's got to be another trip to the Northampton Archives.
            Just goes to show you can never really rely on second hand info without any source information.

            BourneGooner

            Comment


            • #7
              My Uncle was baptised twice in 1919. The first took place the day after he was born in the Church that was less than 50 yards from where the family lived. Family folklore has it that he was not expected to survive so he was carried from the house to church at the insistance of Grandma.

              Luckily he did survive and was baptised a second time 6 weeks later. This time it was in the village church where his fathers family lived.

              There are two distinct entries, different parishes and as he has a very unusual name, they are both definately him.

              That sickly baby is still alive and celebrated his 89th birthday in August.

              I suspect that Grandma never let on to the second Vicar that the first baptism had taken place.
              Helen
              Support the S.O.P.H.I.E. campaign, Stamp Out Predudice Hatred + Intolerance Everywhere.

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              Comment


              • #8
                Hi
                I have just looked on the Hugh Wallis site and extracted baptisms for Castor are covered 1538-1800. Nothing comes up for Andrew Wortley. Baptisms in the 1600's very rarely give the mother's name, so I think you can disregard the submitted entry.
                Moggie

                Comment


                • #9
                  An unlikely possibility is that there is a family bible floating around with a date of birth June 1642. The child is then baptised in March 1642, which is March 1643 in a new style calendar.

                  Or there are two children, born 9 months apart and the first dies.

                  Occasionally, you find an event recorded in more than one church, although it would appear to have taken place in just the one. In that instance, each record would have the same date.
                  Phoenix - with charred feathers
                  Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have several bp twice, BUT there has usually been a longer time lag between the events:

                    - some were bp C of E then Non-Con (or vice-versa)

                    - others parents have moved parish and the vicar has had a family round up

                    - one in the care of aunts & uncles, aged 14 and about to be found "a place". I wonder if the relatives were "unsure", employer insisted on their servants having had a Christian upbringing and so she was whisked off just incase? (Didn't do much good as she later became a "kept" woman.)
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And I seem to remember that families were sometimes baptised en masse "just in case" in order to qualify for parish relief etc.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would bet my bottom dollar that this is a case of someone tinkering with the dates in a misguided attempt to correct them for old style/new style.

                        The first one was probably ACTUALLY June 1642 and the second March 1641, which was fifteen months earlier.

                        Go with what you have found yourself in the original parish record and ignore the submitted stuff.

                        OC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BourneGooner,
                          I have a couple of people in my family trees who would appear to have been baptised twice.

                          The first is Hannah who was born on 21.5.1813 the daughter of William Sherrard & Hannah Silk. She was baptised with her younger sister, Mary, on the 7.7.1816 at Sion Chapel, Lady Huntingdon’s Connection, Union Street in the East End of London. At that time they lived in the parish of St Matthew Bethnal Green.
                          On 7.4.1822 Hannah was baptised again, but at St Matthew’s BG. Her name was now Hannah Wilkins Sherrard and she was baptised with her brothers John Silk Sherrard and Michael Jones Sherrard and her sister Mary Elizabeth Sherrard. Mary Elizabeth was born in 1822, so presumably the earlier Mary had died. Subsequent census data and Hannah Wilkins’s (by then Hannah Downes) death certificate confirm that she was born in 1813, so there is every indication that she was the same Hannah.
                          There is the possibility that the priest at St Matthew’s had put influence on William to come back into the Anglican fold. If so, his efforts may have been shortlived as both William and Michael Jones were buried at Globe Fields Weslyan Burial Ground. Or it could have been, as Uncle John said above, William did it so that the children would qualify for parish relief.

                          The second needs further research, but as it concerns a person who is peripheral to my tree - on the outer branches as it were I am content at the moment to leave things undecided.
                          a) Edward Semain, the son of William & Catherine, was baptised on 11.4.1841 at Shoreditch St Leonard’s (IGI)
                          b) Edward Semain, the son of William & Catherine of 24 Horse Shoe Alley, was baptised on 29.11.1848 at St James Curtain Road (which is very close to St Leonards). (Parish register - but not my own research. Impeccable source nevertheless).
                          Now here is the conundrum: the second Edward was born 3.12.1840, four months before the first Edward was baptised. Subsequent census data and certificates point to Edward’s birth in 1840. As far as I have been able to determine there was only one Semain/Samain couple with the names William & Catherine.
                          So, was it the same Edward baptised twice? It certainly looks that way. Henry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think I've got some in my tree who were baptised at a Union Chapel and at a church - switching from one denomination to another. But now I remember a more mysterious one...
                            William Brown, born 4th Feb 1803, baptised 19th Feb 1803 at St Botolph without Aldgate, parents Joseph and Susannah, then baptised 11 Oct 1816 at St Botolph without Aldgate, London, parents Joseph and Susannah. His date of birth is given on the 1816 baptism entry, so it's definitely him. I know that Joseph married a second wife early in 1804, which suggests that Susannah died soon after William's birth, so perhaps nobody could remember whether he had been christened and for some reason he was baptised again instead of a certificate of the original baptism being produced. Very strange, that one.
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's about the age he would have been apprenticed. Maybe he was moving to another parish and needed proof of baptism for settlement purposes.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                He went to work in his father's butcher's shop, where the family lived, as far as I know, Mary!
                                KiteRunner

                                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Andrew Wortley Gainsborough

                                  hi I have been looking at this rather puzzling record on IGI.

                                  Children were not baptised twice. However sometimes the baptism could be quite a long way from the place of birth - 50 miles or more after the turnpike roads arrived, if you had the money..

                                  The Andrew Wortley is based upon a "pedigree" record "submitted" by one Alice Trigg. A very large number of family trees have been built up based upon this particular submitted entry and in particular on the quoted marriage between John Wortley and Elizabeth Palmer in Gainsborough. The Gainsboro' marriage of 1628 can be found in the Bishop's Transcripts. However the submitted record has John Wortley as one born in North Luffenham 1592. This John Wo. was a barrister-at-law and son of Wm Wortley b. Yorkshire. Wm Wortley m. Isabel Lawe. Wm's father was High Sheriff of Derbyshire and of the same line as Sir Francis Wortley. The only evidence that this is the same John Wo. as married Eliz Palmer in Gainsboro' is the submitted IGI record. There is another John Wortley b. Grantham 1610. A female line of the Wortleys of Yorkshire married Sir Sutton Sconey of Bassingthorpe Lincs. The Coney's kept in close touch with Luffenham and Sarah Coney nee Wortley died there. Similarly contact with Yorkshire roots was maintained. One John Wortley was paying tax in Castor 1524 and an Eliz. Wortley was b. Castor 1573, so we know that the Wortleys of Castor had been there since the days of Henry VII. There is an Andrew Wo. b. Castor 1642 and another got married Gainsboro' 1666. Ms Trigg has inferred that this is the same Andrew as the record "fits". fwiw it is about 100 miles from Gainsboro to Castor down the Great North Road via Newark and Grantham. There may be something in the bones of this submission but for sure the records are far more fragmentary. Don't forget that IGI records are "evidence" submitted to the LDS. All evidence is true in that it exists. The LDS do not test the evidence in the way you suggest, for that you will have to consult other sources. Many of the parish registers are now on line. Another excellent source is the National Archives much of which is online and foc. Good luck.


                                  Originally posted by BourneGooner View Post
                                  I have a general query regarding baptisms...

                                  Has anybody ever heard of or found anyone in their research that has been baptised twice?

                                  My reason for asking is as follows:

                                  In my tree I have an Andrew Wortley b. abt 1642
                                  IGI gives a baptism date of 19 Jun 1642 in Castor, Northampton and his parents were John and Elizabeth Wortley.

                                  I've had cause to search the parish records for Gainsborough (at Gainsborough Library) as part of my hunt for Wortleys and found in their records Andrew Wortley was baptised 4 March 1642 and his father was John Wortley no mother mentioned.

                                  Either this is coincidence and there were two Wortley family's, they both had sons Andrew baptised within a reasonably short space of time, both with a John Wortley as father or they are the same person....
                                  One explanation I suppose being he was baptised first where the father came from and secondly where the mother came from.
                                  I haven't had chance to check the IGI record against the parish record as yet.

                                  Sorry for the lengthy explanation, just wondering if anyone had come across a "double" baptism or am I completely barking up the wrong tree........

                                  A very confused (for the minute anyway!)
                                  BourneGooner

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have a relative that was baptised twice, once privately at home.
                                    Joy

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have a family who baptised one of their children three times!! She was the eldest (surviving) and first baptised shortly after birth in the local CoE, as you'd expect. The next few children weren't baptised at birth but done as a job lot, along with eldest sister, a few years later in a non-conformist chapel (Methodism revival was sweeping the area at the time, late 1820's & early 1830's). A few years later still, all of those children plus the ones born in the meantime were then baptised in the same local CoE church. So one child baptised three times and three baptised twice, the remainder baptised the more normal once. All of which are on extracted IGI records. I can't tell you how much detangling that took...

                                      Kate x

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                                      • #20
                                        CofE doctrine is that baptism is only done once for any individual. Most denominations would hold the same, although the tangled web of whether a baptism is "valid" muddies the water. CofE recognises any Trinitarian Baptism (at least, any conducted according to the custom of a mainstream church) as valid.

                                        But in case of doubt, there is "conditional" baptism. This would be carried out when there is no-one can establish whether there has been a previous baptism. The service would look exactly like a normal baptism except for a small change in the wording. I think the register entry would look like a normal baptism, although the priest might have made a comment in the register. This would then seem to any researcher to be a second baptism, although technically it isn't.

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