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Two Josephs or One?

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  • Two Josephs or One?

    Joseph Samain (Joseph the Sailor) was born in Shoreditch in 1773 the son of Abraham & Ann. He served in the Royal Navy aboard HMS Venerable from 1794 until at least 1798. Although his name does not appear in the catalogue at Kew, he is listed in the Muster Books (ADM 36) and Pay Books (ADM 35) of the Venerable until 1798. I have found no record of his discharge from the Navy.
    In Baltimore, Maryland in 1807 Joseph Samain (Joseph the Mariner) married a widow, Jane Ray nee Pritchard. Both Joseph and Jane were English, Jane possibly from Liverpool. Joseph was at first a mariner and then a rigger on the ships at Fell’s Point, Baltimore. The Baltimore census of 1810 shows Joseph was born between 1766 and 1784. He died in 1819. His third son was named Abraham, which is a possible link between Joseph the Mariner and the parents of Joseph the Sailor, i.e. Abraham and Ann.
    I believe that the two Josephs are one and the same, but how can I find the evidence? Were registers of merchant seamen kept at that time?
    Can anyone help? Many thanks, Henry.

  • #2
    I don't know for sure if there are any merchant seamen registers from that date but I don't think so. Have you checked to see whether Abraham (the father of Joseph) left a will?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Hi Henry,
      Nice to see you posting, a bit late for a welcome

      Have you checked the immigration records Maryland info or do you think he was maybe signed off in Baltimore?

      Why would their be such a wide range of his birth date on the 1810 census? It’s not helpful is it.

      Info on Merchant seaman records can be found here

      Do you live in USA?
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 05-10-08, 16:17.
      Kat

      My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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      • #4
        Do you mean there could be a reference to the American Joseph in his father's will? No will has been found, though it would be a good idea to search further. Thank you.

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        • #5
          Val & George are also researching a Semain/Samain family from Shoreditch - might be worth comparing notes to see if you have anyone in common:

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          • #6
            See post #20 on that thread:

            Charles' father Joseph was the son of James Samain and Mary Cracknell, Grandson of John Warden Samain and Amey Webb and G.Grandson of Abraham and Ann Warden and GG.grandson of Abraham and Rebecca

            Comment


            • #7
              Kat,
              Yes, the 1810 Baltimore census was really a head count which split the household first into male & female and then by age into big chunks. The adult male (who must have been Joseph himself) was aged between 26 & 44 (or similar).
              It is possible that he was signed off in Baltimore, but I would think the Royal Navy was very reluctant to sign anyone off in the US. I know those who jumped ship in America and were caught were dealt with in an extremely savage manner. Lives were not spared.
              I have not checked any immigration records. Do you have a reference for those, please. I am not in the US.
              I will also search the site you sent, thank you.

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              • #8
                Mary,
                Thank you. I am in touch with Val & George. This Joseph was John Warden's younger brother. Abraham & Ann had 13 children. My direct ancestor was Rebecca, the youngest of the family.

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                • #9
                  Kat,
                  I missed the reference to Immigration which you gave. Put it down to excitement.
                  There are no Samains there.

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                  • #10
                    This is the link to General Immigration, scroll down for USA.

                    click here

                    The immigration link under Maryland info I gave you has broken. I have reported it. There is a lot of good info under the Maryland site on Wiki that could be helpful.

                    ps.

                    Umm... apart from the Early Settlers in 1600's you won't find anything much until about 1820 on Immigration sites.
                    Probably your best bet is writing to Maryland State Archives:
                    see here.
                    extract from above:
                    Maryland Indexes
                    • (Naturalizations, Provincial, Index), 1637-1776. See also Jeffrey and Florence Wyand, Colonial Maryland Naturalizations. Index 41. MSA S1414
                      (Naturalizations, Index), 1777-1917. Indexes General Courts of the Eastern and Western Shores, 1781-1805, and some county courts. See Passenger and Immigration Lists Index for citations to printed works on immigration (most not available at the Archives). Index 42. MSA S1415
                      (Naturalizations, BA and BC, Index), 1796-1933. Indexes all courts in Baltimore County before 1851 and Baltimore City. Please include all information on the card on your request slip. See also Michael H. Tepper, Passenger Arrivals at the Port of Baltimore, 1820-1834. Index 43. MSA S1416
                      (Naturalizations, BA, Index), 1852-1918. See also Indexes 42 and 43. Index 44. MSA S1417
                      (Naturalizations, Federal, Index), 1797-1906, 1925-1951 and naturalizations of soldiers, 1918-1923. For 1797-1906, the index card is the only record. After 1906, the records are at the Federal Records Center in Philadelphia. Index 142. MSA S1463
                    Last edited by Katarzyna; 05-10-08, 18:28.
                    Kat

                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                    • #11
                      Kat,
                      Thank you for those leads which I will follow up. The period in which Joseph went to Baltimore must have been between 1798 and 1807 - probably between 1800 & 1805/6 given his naval service at one end and his marriage at the other. These years seem to be too early for one set of records and too late for another. Still that I suppose is one of Murphy's Laws of Family History. Henry

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                      • #12
                        Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild)

                        Another link for Maryland suggested by Muggins in Sussex
                        Kat

                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                        • #13
                          Thank you Kat & Muggins in Sussex.
                          I think the Immigration/Naturalization pathway looks promising (if I can come to terms with the Archivist Speak in which the Maryland link is expressed). Henry

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