What standard of proof do you apply?

[Muggins in Sussex]

I guess this is an impossible question, so will understand if no-one replies:D

But I have been puzzling over this for days (actually, years!)

I am as certain as I could be of the identity of one of my grandparents - so far as the other three are concerned, I feel about 55% sure of the identity of one, and about 20% sure of the identity of the other 2.

I just don't know how sure I should be to start going back further with any degree of confidence.

Also, I presume that the further back you go, the more you just rely on what is on certificates as being the truth, because there is less likelihood that you will be aware of family rumours, skeletons in cupboards etc which make you sceptical of the truth of what is in certificates.

Hope this makes sense.

[KiteRunner]

I guess you're right, Joan. I think if you have a will or a letter or some other document written at the time, newspaper reports, biographies, etc, then it can work as much better proof than a certificate, which can often be inaccurate. I know those other things can be too but often they will tell you stuff that isn't on any certificate.

[Little Nell]

Well Joan, a pertinent question.

I believe someone at the Society of Genealogists said you should have 3 separate pieces of evidence for each "fact" and you can see what I think of facts in my signature!

I suppose I would want at least one piece of corroborating evidence, though its hard to say without knowing who you think are your grandparents and why.

Most of us rely on having the right people because a family member has an unusual name, or is blind or something else to distinguish them on the census.

But lots of us struggle with familes of Johns and Williams married to Marys and Anns, who move around between each census - often between each cert! - and change their ages, birthplaces and occupations wherever possible!

My own grandfathers were easy - I have info from my parents about them and although they have very common surnames their first names are much less common - Angus and Jeuel!

[Katarzyna]

Do your grandparents have brothers or sisters that you know of? You could always work sideways and look for those births and a certificate would give their parentage. The more evidence you can secure the more positive you will feel they are all one and the same.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks Kite, Nell & Kat

My parents only told me who one of my grandparents was - as children my sisters and I were brought up to understand that we should not enquire about the other 3. As a child this didn't seem odd, as it was all that I had known.

I have tried going sideways, and mostly everything all seems in order, until I get back to my own supposed grandparents, if that makes sense

It's made even more complicated by the fact that seemingly the birth cert of one of my parents was destroyed when s/he was a child :( and I have never been able to find one that fits)- so for that parent, all I really have to rely on is rumour and a few photos I found when I was rummaging where I probably shouldn't have been rummaging!

[kathsgirl.48]

This might give you a bit of hope.

I was contact by someone a month or so ago as it looked like I had her father in my family tree on GR. She hasn't seen him since her parents divorced in the 70's and has no idea where he is now or even if he's still alive.

Unfortunately I didn't know her father but a couple of my second cousins grew up with him as they are that much older than me.

After 'D' gave me his description and some details of his hobbies and where he worked in London, I passed the info on to my second cousins....who had lost contact with him in the 50's! Sure enough it WAS her Dad.

I even found that I had a photo of her grandfather with my second cousins families and my Mums! I might add that all of our ancestors are from Dublin so luckily I can give her a lovely big Irish tree!

Now if I hadn't have had her Dad in my tree..as he descended from the Brady's...I doubt if she would have found a contact, as I've searched for him on other genealogy sites and found nothing and he was an only child.

So you never know...somebody might have a connection to your family...just don't give up.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Muggins in Sussex]

What a lovely story, Teresa - thank you - I do sometimes feel like giving up, but it is stories like that that give me heart.

Thank you

[kathsgirl.48]

What a lovely story, Teresa - thank you - I do sometimes feel like giving up, but it is stories like that that give me heart.

Thank you

Sent you a pm.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I have always used the "three pieces of primary evidence" rule in my research, and the more so the further back I go, because once you move out of living memory, it is all you have to go on!

I've told this tale before, but it does illustrate the dangers of relying on one piece of hearsay, family evidence, no matter how compelling that evidence is.

My father remembered his maternal grandmother very well and visited her every week until she died when he was about 12. He was very close to her and she told him many tales about her childhood etc.

Armed with this information I followed her family back with ease for five or six generations. I didn't bother with any "proof" other than looking at baptisms etc and I worked up a lovely tree over several years of digging around in the records office (pre computers).

Eventually I decide to get a few certs to finish it off. OH DEAR. She was NOT my father's grandmother, she was his STEP grandmother and no blood relation at all.

The other side of that coin though, which is no evidence at all other than guesswork, is that I am 99% sure of the identity of my 3 x GGF, who was not married to my 3 x GGM! Because the circumstantial evidence is so compelling, I have pencilled this man and his lineage into my tree.

Of course, a future generation may come along and find the bit of evidence that proves he is NOT my 3 x GGF, but until then I shall claim him (cautiously) as mine.

OC

[Asa]

I gather as much evidence as I can and also use my instincts a bit. I have not yet found a birth certificate or a baptism for my great grandfather (b1875/6) or any of his siblings. I have had to identify him using only census, the use of family names, electoral roll and the appearances of various relations as informants on death certificates or witnesses at marriages. I think in his case there is hardly any possibility of it not being him with all the evidence I've gathered but I just knew it was when I first came across him. I think above anything and everything else we have to be personally satisfied.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, I do think instinct comes into it a bit as well. Sometimes you just "Know" something isn't right, or that it isn't the right person, and other times you know it IS the right person.

You do have to be very careful of course, not to push to fit too hard, and to always keep in your mind that you haven't PROVED this is the right person.

OC

[Uncle John]

Sometimes the clincher is someone turning up in a census as widowed father-in-law or neice or long-lost brother.

[Christine in Herts]

I had this - with Errant Grandfather.

I had the family rumours, and my g-parents' marriage cert. I worked back via the 1901 census - and even tried systematically to find an alternative out of the 1901 namesakes (without finding anyone who made sense with things I was reasonably confident about). I worked my way back through a couple more generations and had a plausible family - but not absolutely definite. It was only that one family rumour was that he'd gone to the USA - and then I started to find records. Ultimately I managed to match his US record by his signature - and his parents, as mentioned in that record, matched my hypothesis.

I'd worked my way back, knowing that I might have the wrong lot, but having the info made it much more rewarding when I found the match.

Christine

[dicole]

I have come to a dead halt in my TUPPER family - the baptism record of my 3xg grandfather Charles Tupper, gives no information on his parents. It clearly states "Charles, Charlotte and Thomas Tupper baptised 1 March 1807".

His NSW death certificate puts his birth year as 1804 and his father Thomas. There is no indication that Charlotte and Thomas are his parents, and no trace of any couple called Charlotte and Thomas in the parish, or surrounding area.

One must think that Charles, Charlotte and Thomas were siblings, and perhaps the family was unable to baptise the children as they were born, and so did them all on one day.

Without the baptismal information, how can I ever prove that Charles IS the son of Thomas and Ann Tupper, who were the only Tupper couple baptising their children in the parish around that time ?

It would appear that Thomas and Ann had their children baptised in both Woolavington and Graffham Sussex, neighbouring parishes.

I have continued to trace the Tupper family in the hope of finding a clue - no other record of Charlotte or Thomas Tupper has been found, although it appears that a couple of other "siblings" made it to the 1841 census.

And then there's his possible mother, Ann "Pote", and that's another story !!

I am going to get the microfilm of the parish registers, including things like the parish chest, vestry notes, etc, and scour them again for any possible clues.


Di

[Kit]

Having certs doesn't always help. I have a Grace married to a Thomas Bennett. Grace is either a Simpson or an Eastwood. So I got the cert. The name on the cert is Grace Simpson Eastwood, with Eastwood as an afterthought under the other 2 names. Both Grace's father's are Richard and have the same occupation. Both Grace's were born in the same area in the same year and they are related so the use of family names doesn't help either. I have no idea how to work out who she is.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I've had one case where all the official documentation gives MISinformation.She was missing from 41 & 51 census; consistently gave wrong pob & age on census 61 - 81. Marriage cert (1858) drops 2 years from her age and gives fictitious father's name. Death cert gives incorrect age.
Born pre-civil reg, so no birth reg. Despite several PR searches of the reg of claimed parish of birth (and neighbouring ones too) no occurences of that surname for ANY event 10 yrs either side of alleged birth.
IGI has just one possible bp in a parish about 12 miles away, about 2 yrs earlier than the age given in official documentation, and illegitimate.
Ruth, the mother of this child was born in the parish always named in census, although she had moved on by the time she produced a string of children, before eventually marrying and settling down.
What I am having to rely on for proof are the witnesses at the marriage - Esther & George Fenton(mother & son). Luckily for me, Esther lived in the same village as my mystery woman and Esther gave the named village as her pob (as does Ruth.) I've found Esther's marriage and her maiden name is the same as Ruth's - they were sisters. The groom came from Norfolk, 2 counties away, so I can find no other feasible reason for Esther being a witness. It has been a very long journey and a very bumpy ride.

[kylejustin]

i have mary harker born 1832/1833 on the census, in muker, reeth and melbecks. there are two mary harker's for that period, both born in low row, and both have parents called james.

one mary is the daughter of james and sarah, the other, james and margaret.
which is the right one? no clue!!

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

i have mary harker born 1832/1833 on the census, in muker, reeth and melbecks. there are two mary harker's for that period, both born in low row, and both have parents called james.

one mary is the daughter of james and sarah, the other, james and margaret.
which is the right one? no clue!!

You could check the burial registers to see if one of these Marys died in childhood.

[Grampa Jim]

KyleJustin

Have you visited this Site? Untitled Document

The Webmistress is a very helpful Lady and lives in Wensleydale.

Your two Mary's would be with their parents presumably until they married and you are fortunate in that the first available Census is the 1841. You didn't say when your Mary married.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I constantly have the problem of parallel families - same-named parents, same-named child, same village, same occupation and same birth year!

I have tackled this with some success OCCASIONALLY, lol, by following both families backwards and forwards and sideways. As UJ says, sometimes a cousin or aunt or sister pops up and you can fix siblings.

Another help has been MIs, which gave me a list of family members (which I already had, of course, from baptisms etc) but this gave me something to cross-check on census, and I was able to see that two sisters married the two brothers who lived next door to them and they therefore weren't from my family, who lived round the corner!

OC