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Accuracy of Times indexing?

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  • Accuracy of Times indexing?

    I'd be interested to hear anyones views on this. I use the Times online at home, via my local library. I searched for any mention of someone who I thought was likely to have a marriage announcement/death in the paper. I'll call him Fred Bloggs. There were no hits. Found out his fathers name yesterday, so just put his name, Jack Bloggs, into the search and the marriage for his son, Fred came up, mentioning his father Jack. So why didn't it come up under a search for Fred??? Any idea how the indexing/search works?
    The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
    Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

  • #2
    If it says something like "Fred son of Jack Bloggs" and you searched for "Fred Bloggs" (in inverted commas), you wouldn't get any hits. If it says "Fred Bloggs son of Jack", it ought to come up when you search for "Fred Bloggs".

    I no longer have access, so I can't test it for you.

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    • #3
      No, it says Fred Bloggs, son of Jack Bloggs, but still doesn't come up!
      The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
      Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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      • #4
        That's strange. The only thing I can think of is an OCR error - maybe the "Fred" has been interpreted as a different word, in which case the indexing wouldn't pick it up.

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        • #5
          Thanks Mary. Just tried putting the brides name in - her full name is in the marriage announcement. No hits, but when I put in her parents name - they have a different surname to hers- it comes up. This is worrying me - how often does this happen?!
          The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
          Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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          • #6
            There's no doubt that it happens quite a bit - but whether it happens on any one search is "it depends". It depends on how clear the printing was on the particular edition, and how good the OCR system is.

            There's a NZ or Oz (can't remember which) newspaper site where you get the chance to help the OCR system "learn" from its mistakes.

            Christine
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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            • #7
              If you consider the number of times the OCR match gives you an image where the word(s) you requested are NOT included (ie a word/words have been misread) then presumably about the same percentage will not be found when the words ARE in the text. I put the success rate at between 90-95% depending on the quality of the pages etc etc

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              • #8
                Thanks Christine. Just checked a couple of the names on the same page, and most come up in the search, but not all. Whilst the Times online is a great resource, I wonder how many searches are unsuccessful like this - not so good!
                The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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                • #9
                  Thanks Merry, although I don't know how you arrive at that figure!
                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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                  • #10
                    Searching for "Lanning" a lot of hits were actually for "Manning". Knowingthe fallibility of OCR on some text, it's always worth trying to search in different ways.

                    And the old fashioned index isn't to be despised. A friend found a reference on the cd which did not relate to the paper at all. It turned out that the entry had only appeared in certain editions and wasn't on the Times Digital Archive edition.
                    Phoenix - with charred feathers
                    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                    • #11
                      That's interesting about the "old" index. Have looked at it before, when the Digital version wasn't available, but of course the "new" version is so much more accessible!
                      The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                      Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                        I put the success rate at between 90-95% depending on the quality of the pages etc etc
                        I would have thought it was quite a bit worse, especially for the older editions.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Phoenix View Post

                          And the old fashioned index isn't to be despised. A friend found a reference on the cd which did not relate to the paper at all. It turned out that the entry had only appeared in certain editions and wasn't on the Times Digital Archive edition.
                          What CD is that?

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                          • #14
                            Palmer's Index to the Times. It is just a subject matter index, rather than OCR, but a friend found an obituary in it that wasn't in the TDA. She queried this at WDYTYA at Olympia, since the Times had a stand there and they found the actual cutting for her. I would have expected obituaries to have appeared in all the editions, but evidently not.
                            Phoenix - with charred feathers
                            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                            • #15
                              I have to say that I have found the Palmers Index more accurate than the online Times as one of my ancestors comes up as he should do on the Palmers index but not in the digital online Times Index, no matter what I key in and I have tried just surname and initials as well as two first names but no luck.

                              Janet

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by annswabey View Post
                                Thanks Merry, although I don't know how you arrive at that figure!

                                Sadly, by searching for different works and counting the numbers of correct results against incorrect results :o. Some words, or combinations of words do produce more incorrect results, so maybe I should have added that for ordinary work combinations I have found the number of "misses" to be about 90-95% but for more unusual words the "misses" are much higher, even up to as much as 100% misses! lol

                                Lies, damn lies and statistics!

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks Merry, you're obviously a better statistician than me!
                                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

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