An 1871 challenge

[Sue from Southend]

My 3x gt grandfather is found here on the 1871 census

- Ancestry.co.uk

He is James Butcher halfway down the page at 154 Tooley Street. The handwriting is atrocious. The transcriptions list the family as
Fannie - wife
Emley Handy -daughter in law (Possibly Hardy?)
Ann Thomas - Wales sister (I assume they mean wife's sister)
and a couple bar staff/servants

Challenge is - find a marriage for James and Fannie and locate Fannie and Emley/Emily in 1861 or earlier.
James first wife died in November 1863 (I have the certificate)

By 1881 James is living with his daughter Kezia and her family in Southwark. No sign of Fannie & co. I'm not convinced that there was a marriage but it's bugging me now that I can't find them pre 1871!

[Gwen@coggiecorner]

Is James first wife called Betsy? then this is them in 1851 his names has been transcribed as Batcher There is a Kezia with them.
Class HO107, Piece 1569, Folio 428, Page 1
Betsey Batcher 39
Eloise Batcher 12
Frederick Batcher 16
James Batcher 44
James Batcher 22
Keziah Batcher 13
Edward H Boden 19
Mary Boden 53
Sophia Boden 15
William T Boden 21
Emma Greenlees 17
John Oxford 14

[Sue from Southend]

Yes that's them Gwen - I don't actually have a problem with James and his family (apart from Eloise disappearing off the face of the earth!) I'm just irritated that I can't find anything on this Fannie and Emily!

Thanks for looking tho'!

[Gwen@coggiecorner]

just wanted to make sure I am looking for the right family do you know Fannies maiden name or when you think they married? no luck so far.

[Sue from Southend]

Well I'm assuming that as Ann Thomas is single and is listed as wife's sister that the maiden name would be Thomas. There's a submitted entry on IGI for a Frances Thomas (assuming that Fannie is short for Frances!) b 1819 in Kentisbeare, Devon which is a possibility. But no sister...

As to possible date it can only be between 1863 and 1871!

[Gwen@coggiecorner]

I've been looking for Thomas but no luck so far

[Sue from Southend]

Me neither!:D

[Night Owl]

Hi Sue - hope you're well

Given Fannie's age she could have been a widow. There are 2 James Butcher marriages that are possibles on Free BMD

Dec 1868 Romford poss spouse Fanny Emma Beckford
Sep 1869 Medway poss spouse Fanny Hannah Mitchell

Can we eliminate those?

Jackie

[Sue from Southend]

Hi Jackie , yep I'm good, I've been meaning to get in touch!

I saw those two marriages and tho' not beyond the realms of possibility it doesn't seem likely. Fannie's daughter's surname definitely begins with an H but what the rest of it is beats me!

[susan h]

Hi, I think this is them in 1861.

Name: Emily Hardy
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Christchurch, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Southwark St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

James E Devitt 41
Emily Hardy 9
Sarah Hardy 40
Ann Thomas 28

[Sue from Southend]

Well it looks like a distinct possibility! Quite how Sarah became Fannie I don't know and Ann Thomas is widowed in 1861 and single in 1871! Do you think they did it just to confuse us? I'll have a really good look tomorrow and try and work back a bit. Off to watch WDYTYA now. Thank you very much Susan - I've been looking for this for ages!