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  • Family Name Mystery! Advice welcome.

    My grandfather was William Arthur Houghton born in 1904. On purchasing a copy of his birth certificate it confirmed the details of his parents to be Arthur William Houghton and Lillie Houghton nee Newton as expected.

    However no matter how hard I tried I couldn’t find any record of a marriage for Arthur and Lillie. I knew Arthur was in the army as it was shown on the birth certificate. So using ancestry.co.uk I located his WW1 service record. Working through all 60 pages I discovered the army were pressing for his marriage certificate to confirm he had married on the 8th April 1901 as he had stated.

    Several communications later it’s revealed that Arthur’s name at the time of the marriage was David William Newton and that Lillie was in fact Lillie Houghton!

    On checking the BMD Index I can find a marriage matching these details and date. If I was to order a copy of the certificate would it provided any information as the why the couple took the Lillie's surname? Is there any way I can find out why my grandfather changed his name? I can’t see how a David could be know as Arthur!?

    I’m totally amazed and stumped by this information and would welcome some advice, I don’t want to go totally off in the wrong direction and research a red herring!

  • #2
    Hello Pawleyne and welcome to FTF!

    My first thought is that they were NOT married, and this certificate was Lillie's marriage to David Newton.

    Having been pressed for a marriage cert, this was the only one they could come up with, a change of name being less likely to get them into trouble than no marriage at all.

    No, the certificate is unlikely to tell you why the name change (although it MIGHT say Houghton otherwise Newton) but I would certainly get it, to see the details of the groom's father, which may give you a clue whether Arthur and David are the same man.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      Just had a quick look on Lancsbmd and the marriage is there, with no alternative names.

      The couple married in church - St Athanasius Liverpool. I would certainly get the cert.

      Is there any explanation in his service record about the alternative name?

      There is a LATER marriage (1907) of Arthur Houghton to Lillie Thomas.....

      OC
      Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 21-09-08, 14:47. Reason: Amended church name.

      Comment


      • #4
        Welcome to the site!

        I think OC has a good idea, there. It certainly fits the facts.

        There's a small chance that it was about something else altogether - like retaining an inheritance by preserving a surname, or something.

        I've had a look on the Lancs OPC site, but there doesn't seem to be anything for Kirkdale, St Athanasius, where the Lillie Houghton / David Newton marriage took place (according to Lancs BMD).

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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        • #5
          (Sorry, I'll amend my post - wrong church, lol)

          I have found David William Newton on the 1901, nicely in place for his wedding at St Athanasius. He is aged 26, a picture frame maker and is nephew to the head of house Jane Hivey (looks more like Henry to me).

          RG13 3456 55 42.

          I cannot identify an Arthur William Houghton/Newton - there are too many, and the same with Lillie Houghton/Newton.

          Does the above information fit with your man? Do you know anything else about this couple, i.e. ages when they died, their fathers' names etc. to pin them down on the census?

          Another possibility I have just thought of - the two surnames may have simply been transposed by the copying clerk. I have this exact situation on a marriage cert for one couple, they each have each other's surname. The names of their fathers gives the game away!

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            The military records shown the details given as St Athanasius Church, Walton on The Hill, with Rev. Burrows or Barrows as official.

            There is no explanation about the name change, but after that information is supplied there were no further requests regarding a certificate. Given that his records also show he went AWOL twice but rejoined and served 21 days then 28 days imprisonment it would be unlikley he's trying to hide a previous enlistment surely?!

            My Aunt has spoken with a lot of family members in researching but no one ever mentioned a name change, but she had been given Lillie's maiden name as Newton. It had also been suggested that she may have been adopted, just to really muddy the waters!

            Guess I'll order the certifcate and see what information it gains me!

            Comment


            • #7
              According to Arthur's attestion papers he was 19 in June 1901 and a groom by trade. He joined the Royal Field Artillery as a driver.

              From memory his death certifcate entry shows an age at death to match the above age giving him a year of birth of about 1880/1881.

              I understand from my aunt that Lillie was a year or so older.



              Thanks for all the suggestions, I lagging a bit behind you all!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pawleyne View Post
                According to Arthur's attestion papers he was 19 in June 1901 and a groom by trade.
                Doesn't sound like the same person as David William Newton, picture frame maker, then.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The only Arthur Houghton, groom, of about the right age in 1901, was born and living in Warwickshire.

                  However there's an Arthur Houghton aged 18, born Manchester and living in Kirkdale, St. Athanasius, who worked as a grocer's carter - I would think he's a good bet.

                  Just to confuse things, he had a sister Lillie.

                  Class: RG13; Piece: 3469; Folio: 126; Page: 2.
                  Last edited by Mary from Italy; 21-09-08, 15:37.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK

                    Let's say

                    Lillie Houghton (birth or "adopted" name) married David Newton.

                    Then Lillie Mrs Newton "married" Arthur Houghton. Perhaps Lillie and Arthur were first cousins and thought they couldn't legally marry - or maybe Mr Newton wasn't dead!

                    I would love to have been a fly on the wall when he explained all this to his CO.

                    Looks as if there are certainly two different men here, David Newton and Arthur Houghton.

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I see that on enlistment he gives his father as next of kin - William Houghton of Kirkdale. so the family Mary found in Kirkdale looks promising
                      William Houghton 50
                      Anna 45
                      Charles C 25
                      Lillie 23
                      Maggie 20
                      Arthur 18 Carter for Grocer born Manchester
                      (there are also 3 stepsons in the household ages 13 22 so Anna must have been Arthur's stepmother)
                      Perhaps the Newton /Houghton marriage certificate belonged to William's sister Lillie
                      Last edited by JudithM; 21-09-08, 16:07.
                      Judith passed away in October 2018

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Like you Mary, I found Arthur the groom when searching for Lillie, as that family live in the parish of St Athanasius. Also the army documents list Arthur's place of birth as Manchester, matching the census record.

                        I did think of a second marriage but can't find any record of David William Newton dying after 1901 but before 1904 when my grandfather was born. Of course he could have died long after Lillie remarried!

                        It's all a bit of a mystery.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Perhaps he borrow a certificate to get the Army off his back?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                            I see that on enlistment he gives his father as next of kin - William Houghton of Kirkdale.

                            Well spotted! I hadn't noticed that.

                            If Arthur hasn't married his Lily (the spelling is different on my grandfather's birth certificate and her death entry on the BMD index) but by chance has a sister called Lillie who is married it wouldn't be difficult to 'borrow' their certifcate details, hence knowing the rev.'s name,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, I was wondering if it was something like that.

                              I would definitely get the Lillie-David cert, to see who their parents are.

                              If David's a picture frame maker and Lillie's father is William, then you've cracked it.
                              Last edited by Mary from Italy; 21-09-08, 17:59.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                Let's say

                                Lillie Houghton (birth or "adopted" name) married David Newton.

                                Then Lillie Mrs Newton "married" Arthur Houghton. Perhaps Lillie and Arthur were first cousins and thought they couldn't legally marry - or maybe Mr Newton wasn't dead!
                                That doesn't work, though, because David Newton and Lillie Houghton were married in q2 1901, and Arthur says his marriage was on 8/4/1901.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  April IS in the 2nd quarter of the year isn't it? Though I still would go with theory that this was Arthur's sister's wedding and he "borrowed" the details to get allowance for his "wife"and children.
                                  Ignore me ! I've just realised what you meant Mary, think I'd better go and rest my brain.
                                  Last edited by JudithM; 21-09-08, 16:30.
                                  Judith passed away in October 2018

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                    April IS in the 2nd quarter of the year isn't it? Though I still would go with theory that this was Arthur's sier's wedding and he "borrowed" the details to get allowance for his "wife"and children.
                                    I was thinking that but thought I must be wrong!
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                      April IS in the 2nd quarter of the year isn't it?
                                      Exactly. So the time scale is too short for it to be two marriages for the same Lillie - even if Lillie married David on 1st April, she'd hardly be likely to marry Arthur on 8th April.

                                      So I think Pawleyne's scenario, that Arthur borrowed his sister Lillie's cert, seems the most likely so far - although it doesn't explain why Arthur and Lillie didn't get married.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Did your grandfather have any siblings, Pawleyne? Might be interesting to see what name was given for their mother on their birth certs if he did.

                                        I wonder whether Arthur and Lillie married later? That later marriage OC found might be interesting.

                                        Of course, we now have the problem that if Arthur did borrow his sister's cert, we have no idea what his wife's maiden name was.

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