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  • Scotland - in a muddle

    Any answers to my questions please:

    I have Alexander McLeod's marriage cert, which I've asked about before. It seemed to point to Alexander being the illegitimate son of Alexander snr as mentioned and Margaret Fowlie who later married Alexander Milne.

    That was fine, until I looked at his death cert - the confusion speaks for itself! The informant was Alexander (son) - do you think he may have quoted 'family myth', as I cannot find his grandfather as a schoolteacher, married to a 'Margaret'.

    I can find no marriage for Alexander McLeod snr and Margaret Fowlie.

    I can find no birth cert for Alexander jnr (he of the certificates).

    Apologies for the convolutions here, so many 'Alexander's hope this is reasonably clear.

    Will report back when I have watched 'The Restaurant'!

    Thanks

    Gwyn


    Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

  • #2
    Store keeper
    School teacher

    Could sound roughly the same with a mouth full of bad teeth - perhaps the son misunderstood his father??? Or the Registrar mnisunderstood the son?

    Or perhaps it was all a huge fairy tale and Alex senior was illegitimate?

    OC

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    • #3
      I would say there is a bit of misunderstanding re the occupation, knowing how the accents can sometimes go i wouldn't be suprised at mixing school and store in the right circumstances.
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks OC and Glen - for reading through all that.........

        Perhaps a blend of the two.

        The occupation could well have been mistranscribed/misunderstood. Margaret Fowlie's connection could have been given as 'wife' by the son as part of 'family myth' to make it seem 'respectable'.

        Does that sound reasonable? My heart sank when I found the death cert!!

        Gwyn
        Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

        Comment


        • #5
          Remember that the informant of a death only knows what they have been TOLD by the deceased, which isn't always necessarily true, lol.

          Sometimes they haven't even been told it by the deceased, but by another relative.

          I had a similar problem with a scottish family and it nearly drove me mad. The children had been told, by someone, that their mother's maiden name was (Smith, say, I can't remember without looking at my notes).

          When father died, his widow was named nee Smith, and as all the children died, their mother was named as nee Smith, by whichever sibling registered their death.

          Their mother had forgotten to tell them she had been married before, and her maiden name was (Jones). Furthermore, she was illegitimate and baptised in the name of Bloggs!

          OC

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          • #6
            I have an illegitimate girl in my tree, her parents married after her birth and she was orphaned as a youngster and found on the various census returns with one set of grandparents then another as the years went by.

            Her birth cert shows her surname as per her unmarried mother eg Smith, the census returns show the same surname as the grandparents she was with (ie, Smith or Jones), the marriage cert has her "double-barrelled", (Smith-Jones).

            Her kids birth certs show her maiden name as whichever version of her names she wanted to say at the time!!!
            http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

            Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
            My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
            My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks OC

              I can accept that it may well be part of family history - OH has plenty like that in his tribe.

              Do I take it then, that the info on the marriage cert would have been given by the groom? So he must have known of the circumstances re his birth. May I add to this that his later history bears the theory of illegitimacy out, as he was boarded out in the 61 and 71 census records, so no help to me there!

              Also, if Alex snr was a storekeeper/schoolteacher, do I take it he was in Canada at the time of his son's marriage?

              Question - could 'Canada' have been 'Cruden' which isn't far from New Deer where Alex jnr was born? I have an Alex snr who could match from there.

              Lord, I'm going round in circles - sorry if I sound dim! (I am ) !

              Thanks

              Gwyn

              Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

              Comment


              • #8
                And Glen - sorry, our posts crossed. I wish 'they' didn't do this to us, mind you, it'd take some of the fun away wouldn't it?

                Gwyn
                Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

                Comment


                • #9
                  But he wouldn't necessarily know the circumstances of his birth, only what he had been told by someone - his mother or maybe another relative?

                  It looks a lot more like Canada than Cruden. Maybe his parents WERE married, and he was born in Canada?

                  You say he was boarded out...have you investigated the boarding family? Most of my young boarders were actually living with relatives and two of them were grandchildren!

                  Why she called them boarders I have no idea but it kept me busy for ages because she had remarried twice and the surnames meant nothing to me.

                  Do you have the marriage cert of Margaret Fowlis and Alex Milne?

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree about Canada/Cruden OC - just a (hopeful) shot in the dark!

                    Can't find a marriage for Alexander Milne and Margaret , even with variations on a theme, but have him in the 71 and 81 as a 'mason' as per Alexander jnr's marriage cert - and he's married to a 'Margaret'. All from Aberdeen.

                    Thank you for the tip re boarders - I'll have another delve.

                    I'll look in again tomorrow - my poor brain's in a spin - and I thought I had it (more or less) sorted before I found the death cert!

                    Gwyn

                    ps: another bit of info re Alex jnr - he was also boarded out as a 'nephew' to George Fowlie in the 51 census, but also present was Margaret Fowlie aged 29. So he spent 20 years away from his parents - hmm!

                    The 'boarding' in 61 also says 'pauper' - I've heard the term in England - what does it mean in Scotland?[

                    Apologies for all the questions.
                    Last edited by Oscar; 18-09-08, 23:35. Reason: ps added
                    Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

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                    • #11
                      Oh, ***, I obviously picked up the wrong man in 51 61 and 71, lol! Thought I'd got him with his mother in 61, she a housekeeper.

                      Are you positive that the Margaret Fowlie in 1851 isn't his mother? Maybe she chased Mr McLeod to Canada, leaving little Alex behind and his uncle got fed up of keeping him and put him in the workhouse, from whence he was boarded out as a pauper.

                      Thinks: if he never lived with his parents, and he was boarded out most of the time, then the "facts" he knew about BOTH his parents were bound to be a bit sketchy.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        I think that Margaret is his Mother - as given on the marriage cert. I can trace a Margaret Fowlie (1851 Scotland), who is in the family with an 'Alexander McLeond' - given as 'nephew'. ??

                        Margaret then marries Alexander Ritchie ( info from marriage cert of Alexander) and this I can follow from census records, but no sign of cert to prove this.

                        My theory is that she had Alexander out of wedlock, then married Alexander Milne, who did'nt want her son around, hence the boarding out.

                        But the Canada connection - I can't fathom at what stage it fits in - as yet!

                        Thanks again OC for all your help.

                        Gwyn
                        Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You lost me after the 2nd post LOL.
                          Jules

                          I'anson of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire. Bannister of Lincolnshire. Burnett of Northumberland. Carter of Sussex and Hampshire. Goldring of Sussex and Hampshire. Fitzgerald of Goodness knows where. Smith of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Dixon of Lincolnshire. Payne of Hampshire

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                          • #14
                            ]Oh Jules, I am sorry.

                            The problem is, there are so many 'Alexander's to sort out. I know what I mean, but it's difficult to put it down in a logical manner.

                            It was the death information which really threw me

                            Never mind, I'll plod on :D

                            Gwyn
                            Freya - a lovely, funny human-friendly disaster waiting to happen....

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