Tweet
Could someone remind me please of the relationships which were illegal for a marriage?
-
-
Many thanks Mary
Comment
-
There is a list of such relationships on my website at
Consanguinity
which runs from biblical times through the medieval to the present day.
Cheers
GuyGuy passed away October 2022Comment
-
Thanks Guy.
I am still a bit confused here with that list. I do have men who have married their dead brother's widow. I assumed that was an ok situation
but the above list states:
These marriages cannot take place in a church but are allowed in a register office:
The 1907 Marriage Act removed no. 17 from the original forbidden list (Wife's sister and Husband's brother) provided the first spouse in each case was deceased. Further changes followed in 1921, 1931 and 1949:
The 1921 Marriage Act removed no. 18 (Brother's wife and Sister's husband) provided brother or sister in each case was deceased.
Sorry to be thick people, but does this mean a man could not marry his deceased bro's widow til 1921?? (Ditto woman/sister's widower?)Comment
-
Just a mo, oh dear - Guy, on your listing it would appear a man could marry his brothers widow and woman sisters widower in 1907? Could some kind soul please interpret for me.
1907 Marriage Act removed from the man’s list
(17) Wife’s sister
(18) Brother’s wifeComment
-
Heather
The great thing about some of these relationships is that ordinary people didn't know they were illegal, and so they married anyway, lol!
I have quite a few men marrying their dead wife's sister, way back in the 1800s - AND they did it in church.
OCComment
-
Thats what I thought OC - I was beginning to get a bit concerned.
But the legal bit - have I got it right now or not - could they do this in 1907 legally?Comment
-
Oh gawd, Heather, I don't know, but it is stuck in my head that a man could marry his dead wife's sister in 1907, but a woman couldn't marry her dead husband's brother till 1921 - one law for men, another for women.
As I said, it didn't stop any of mine. From a legal point of view I don't think it mattered unless someone complained, which probably only happened when a large inheritance was involved.
(I think Guy said on a previous occasion that once a marriage has taken place, it is not necessarily invalidated just because of consanguinity....)
OCComment
-
We have a church wedding for George's Nan, marrying the brother of her late husband, in 1919 at St John the Baptist in Hoxton
Comment
-
The thing which strikes me as most odd is that not only my Grandfather, but even my Father could have married a girl as young as 12.Grampa Jim passed away September 2011Comment
-
That's nothing! What about this:Originally posted by Grampa Jim View Post
In Scotland, a man may not marry his great-grandmother or great-granddaughter and a woman may not marry her great-grandfather or great-grandson.
How many wanted to do this?
Is it OK in England/Wales???
Comment
-
I've got several instances of dead wives' sisters marrying the widower. Just because something was/is illegal doesn't mean people didn't/don't do it!~ with love from Little Nell~Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & SmoothyComment
-
Yes the 1907 Act enabled a man to marry his deceased wife's sister from 1907.Originally posted by Heather Positive Thinker View Post
It also allowed them to marry in church I am afraid the Wiki is wrong.
The provision being if a clergyman refused to allow the wedding he could permit another clergyman to marry the couple.
The 1921 Act allowed a man to marry his deceased brother's widow.
I.E. This allowed a woman to marry her deceased husband's brother.
Cheers
GuyGuy passed away October 2022Comment
-
As I noted on my siteOriginally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
The subject"Deceased Wife's Sister Act" was debated almost annually for seventy years until finally being allowed in 1907.
Hence the parody in Gilbert and Sullivan
Every bill and every measure
That may gratify his pleasure,
Though your fury it arouses,
Shall be passed by both your Houses!
You shall sit, if he sees reason,
Through the grouse and salmon season:
He shall end the cherished rights
You enjoy on Friday nights:
He shall prick that annual blister
Marriage with deceased wife's sister
However no matter what was thought of the law any such marriage was legally incestuous.
Cheers
GuyGuy passed away October 2022Comment
-
Guy
EUUUUWWW! Legally incestuous maybe - but not in nature, as amn (or woman) would not normally share the genes of her partner.
Unless they were cousins of course, which has always seemed far more incestuous to me than a man marrying his deceased wife's sister!
Interesting how different cultures have a different take on this matter. The Jewish religion more or less demands that an unmarried brother marries his deceased brother's widow!
OCComment
-
Nothing to do with genes OC, but religious attitudes.Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
It stems from the ancient church view that when a man and a woman marry they become one.
It then follows that the two families are one family therefore to marry your wife's sister would be to marry your own sister.
Gradually as the State separates from the Church these views (and laws) are changing (whether for the better or worse I don't know).
Cheers
Guy
PS In nature interbreeding can produce benefits.Guy passed away October 2022Comment
-
well, it never stopped henry VIII and catherine of aragonComment
-
Guy
Personally, I always think it was eminently sensible for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister. She would have an interest in his children and most likely be a kind and loving stepmother to her dead sister's children.
I understand the reason for the church's attitude, but not the civil reason which took so long for this law to change.
My ancestors happily married their first cousins for centuries without any apparent ill effects, resulting in the modern day lot who are all as strong as horses although perhaps slightly weaker mentally, lol!
OCComment
Comment