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  • Finding a death.

    I've heard of records not making it to GRO, but as I have so few in UK after 1837, never taken much notice.

    I'd really like to find what happened to Mary Ariel. She was born 1834/5 Bristol. I have her all the way through 1891. I have trawled Ancestry for a death and a marriage (still single 1891) up to 1945. That would make her 110.

    If her death "didn't make it to GRO" is there anywhere else I could check?

  • #2
    I presume you have already looked in the Times Digital Archive to see if there was a death notice for her? Also if you can get the National Probate Calendar then you could search in there but I don't know if it is available at the LDS Family History Centres over there?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Checked the Times. Apparently you need a date (or at least year) of death for the Probate Calender that late. If it is available at LDS it should be available here, but they didn't mention it when I asked.

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      • #4
        anywhere else I could check?

        Yes, but I've just done it! lol


        As she was in Bathwick in 1891 and that's in Bath registration district, I looked on Bath BMD (which proclams itself to be "complete" - ie they have transcribed all the records they possess), but I couldn't see her, trying various permutations :( Obviously she might have moved though.

        Erm.......I have a feeling I looked for a newspaper notice for her on the Gale site when it was available without luck (but I can't remember how hard I looked - all those refs to Shakespeare got in the way :()

        Other than that, I'm not sure. Have you tried the GRO overseas death indexes?

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        • #5
          Not that this will answer the question fully but'

          Her death reg may have made the GRO but the spelling be mistranscribed.

          If the event isn't in the GRO index then a local office could search their registers but there are limits as to what they can check due to time restraints. Each office keeps records for their own district, or in some cases the records for an entire county are held by one "main" office. Usually an office will search a year or two either side of a given year but they wouldn't be able to conduct an open ended search looking at ten or twenty years.

          Narrowing down the area allows you to get the right register office initially (the problem of course is where did she die, it might not be where she usually lived, she may have been visiting family far away).

          Narrow down the timeframe (again that is the difficult bit).

          Presumably you have had little luck finding her in the 1901, it seems there isn't a match when searching for (surname) Ariel, born 1834, although there are a few that could be mistranscriptions of the surname the dates and first names are way out.

          I wonder of there is anything via the NBI or other burial records that may give a clue, even if it is another family member in the area perhaps? Or possibly she is named in a will by a family member?
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

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          • #6
            I can't remember the full story of your Ariels, Libby, but is it possible that Mary emigrated? She would not have been that old in 1891.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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            • #7
              I've tried all the usual suspects.....passenger lists, etc.

              She is the only one of Myles Ariel four children who could possibly benefit from Lucretia's will of 1889. I though she might have waited till she got a bit of money and taken off, but can't find her. She had servants in 1891 and all the time before so don't think she needed money.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Harrys mum View Post
                Checked the Times. Apparently you need a date (or at least year) of death for the Probate Calender that late. If it is available at LDS it should be available here, but they didn't mention it when I asked.
                Yes, if you order a search from York they need a year to work from, because they will only search a few years for your money. But if you can get to a place where they hold the microfiches of the National Probate Calendar, which go up to 1943, then you can just search through them year by year till you find it (or not, of course!) But if you had to order a microfilm in to the LDS centre it would be pointless unless you knew the year, unfortunately.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                • #9
                  Oh, just had another idea - is she listed in any street directories at all? If she is then you could look to see when her name stops appearing. Although of course it could just mean she moved rather then died.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If the event isn't in the GRO index then a local office could search their registers but there are limits as to what they can check due to time restraints.
                    and it's not on Bath BMD so Bath would probably say that means they don't have it :(

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                    • #11
                      There is nothing on the NBI.

                      Only put the name in, no dates or place. Zilch I'm afraid.

                      What about burial registers? Wouldn't you be able to get hold of those via the LDS?
                      If you found her burial, then you would have a date for the death. I managed to do this for two of mine that didn't make it to the GRO. Got both of them from the local office after locating the burial first.

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                      • #12
                        But if the local office also don't seem to have a record.........then she could have died anywhere :o

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                        • #13
                          A long shot.....you mentioned her servants? Were they old retainers?!!

                          I wondered if it would be worth trying to find the 1891 servants in 1901? I haven't looked at their names though....Smith??! lol

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                          • #14
                            As she wasn't short of a bob and had servants, I wonder if she had a right to vote in borough/municipal elections under the 40 shilling freeholder act?

                            You could try looking for the Rates Book and/or Electoral Rolls for the time, and forwards at her address in 1891.

                            Also, what about local newspapers? Even if she died away from home, there would surely be an obituary? I realise you can't look at local papers from there, but perhaps SKS would do it for you?

                            OC

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                            • #15
                              Oc's idea is a good one, because borough elections should list address as well as property address.

                              I wonder whether she went abroad to the continent? Nice climate, ex-pat community etc. Did she get a legacy outright, or an annuity? At some periods, death duty registers show tax paid on each instalment of an annuity.
                              Phoenix - with charred feathers
                              Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                              • #16
                                She always lived on own means mostly with her step mother, Lucretia.

                                The 1891 servants are in different houses in 1901...checked that.

                                Can you look up the Electoral Rolls online??

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                                • #17
                                  No, afraid not. They're held by local libraries, and you can e-mail them to ask for a look-up.

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                                  • #18
                                    Thanks...I'll have a look around in the morning. I'm good at emailing lol.

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                                    • #19
                                      Well, I know how much you love Google book snippets, and this one's more irritating than most.

                                      Bullettino della Commissione archeologica comunale di Roma - Page 386
                                      by Commissione archeologica comunale di Roma, Rome (Italy). Commissione archeologica municipale - Rome - 1907

                                      ... in seconde nozze con una gentile e distinta signora inglese Miss Eyre Ariel,
                                      ritornava or sono quattordici anni con novella energia alla sua arte e alla ...
                                      This is from the Bulletin of the Rome City Archeological Commission - no idea who the man is that it's talking about.

                                      The full snippet reads:

                                      "...children. Having completely recovered and married his second wife, a gentle and distinguished English lady, Miss Eyre Ariel, 14 years ago he returned with renewed energy to his art and..."

                                      Do you have any other Miss Eyre Ariels, or could this be Mary?
                                      Last edited by Mary from Italy; 10-09-08, 13:33.

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                                      • #20
                                        *feels suicidal*

                                        Can you believe that until this moment I thought Mary's middle name was Elizabeth, so I've been looking for variations on a theme of Mary Elizabeth Ariel :( pmsl!!

                                        I bet that is her

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