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  • Master Mariner-Brick wall



    Hi all,

    Please accept my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section, but and there is always a but, I'm new to this;).

    Facts;
    My ggg/grandfather William Parker was a Mariner in 1826 as recorded on his sons baptism record from Bristol records office. His son Henry George Parker is found from 1841 in Ipplepen, Devon and marries a local girl Jane Morey in 1849(I have Henry researched until his death in 1916). On the marriage cert it gives his fathers name as William Parker, occupation MASTER MARINER. I am not sure wether he was Merchant or Royal Navy as this is all the details I have for him, other than his spouse was Jane. So, between 1826-1849 William becomes a Master Mariner.

    I have had searches made on William Parker, Master Mariner by Robert Base and Helen Ball many years ago, but due to poor results went off in another direction. I feel it's time to smash this brick wall I have hit.

    Can anyone offer help to find my William Parker, through advice or searching at Kew. I think records BT115, BT122, BT124, BT125, BT126 would hopefully reveal some clues.

    Thank you all for your time and help in advance.

    Kind regards

    Grahame Parker, Plymouth.

    PS. If I can help with reseach within or around the Plymouth area, please feel free to contact me.

  • #2
    Grahame

    Are you getting stuck on him being a Master Mariner?

    As you only have that information on a marriage cert so far, I would treat it with great caution.

    My grandmother stated on her marriage cert that her father was a Master Jeweller - he most certainly was NOT, he was a Pawnbroker till his dying day!

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey OC,

      I would like to confirm wether he can be found in the Mariner's records. This way I may be able to trace the family further. The facts I have put down are all I have on my William and Jane Parker. I'm not sure wether the records would give the spouses name or any other details that could help me i.e. date of birth, place of birth.

      In the 1851 census I do have a Jane Parker of Exmouth listed as wife of Master Mariner(at sea). I would like to take this as my family, but I have to prove it's them and they had my Henry George Parker when they where both young. I just hope my DNA matches some day soon lol...

      Thanks again

      Grahame

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Grahame, Welcome to FTF!

        A lot of my family where struck down with snobbery at the altar too!

        I have dozens of mariners and master mariners on my tree, but I have not found anything at Kew for any of them. :(

        That's not to say the William and Jane you have found are not the right people, but the best you can do is try to see a way that they are NOT the parents of Henry George - for instance, you could get the birth cert of their youngest child to discover Jane's maiden name and then try and find a marriage - if it's after your Henry George was born and the groom was a bachelor then you will know (OK, 99%) you are barking up the wrong tree!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Merry,

          I going to do as you say, find the birth cert and open or close that link.

          It would be very nice to get a match in the Master Mariners Certificates. Do they give details like, DOB, Place of birth and spouse details.

          Thanks again

          Grahame

          Comment


          • #6
            If will was a mariner in the merchant navy in the 1840s, then he ought to have had a seaman's ticket. This would tell you where he was born, dob and pob, whether he could write, where he lived, when he went to sea and his voyages, up to about the mid 1840s. The records can be quite complicated to search as there are often several series with similar numbers. The system ceased because it was simply too complicated. There might be quite a few William Parkers floating around. Have you checked either at the record office, or via Devon FHS to make sure that the William born in Exmouth didn't marry rather later - Jane would have been quite young to have Henry George, based on her age on the censuses.
            Phoenix - with charred feathers
            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Grahame,
              I have a "master mariner" in one of my families. The only evidence I've found of his sea-going activities is 1861 census, where he was recorded in port (away from home).He was enumerated as the master of the craft, which had a further 3 crew members - mate, an able-bodied seaman and a seaman. His wife was at home, recorded as "Master mariner's wife."
              From 1881 to 1901, my man was recorded as a retired master mariner.
              As yet, nothing has shown up amongst the National Archives at Kew. So, at present I have no evidence to show whether he earned his ticket, or whether he just called himself "master mariner".
              I do know that his father had shares in a boat/boats, because these are referred to in his will - but as the boat isn't named, there's no way of proving that it was the craft his son captained.

              I have a couple more "mariners" (according to pre- civil reg PR) - I think they too were connected with commercial craft, rather than the Royal Navy.

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


              • #8
                Phoenix
                I Found Jane Parker-wife of the master Mariner aged 43 giving her DOB 1808. She would have been 17 yrs old at the time of birth for my Henry George Parker. It's possible in those days & even today!!

                Jane's eldest son was 14 yrs at the census DOB 1837ish. Still not sure about this Jane and family.

                Thanks all for the advice so far.

                Grahame

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don't know what is at Kew but Master Mariner as far as I know would be merchant navy, not Royal Navy. Their wills are often available to download from TNA Documents Online (if they died before 1858).
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There are some other Parker children baptised at St Philip & St Jacob with parents William and Jane, but the occupation of the father isn't mariner for any of them (labourer, farmer). The one whose father is a farmer has mother Jane Rudd, so if you come across a William Parker marrying a Jane Rudd they are unlikely to be yours!
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What was the name of Jane's youngest son and where was he born?
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Graham
                        I've seen the census entries for William and Jane Parker. The thing that seems odd is that there are no obvious children between Henry and Charles - a gap of more than ten years.

                        There could be plenty of reasons for this, just as it is perfectly feasible that this Jane had a child when she was 17.

                        Charles' or a yopunger child's birth certificate would give a maiden name for Jane. If both parents were from Devon, then the odds are that they married in Devon. The Devon FHS ought to throw up a marriage for them. This might suggest whether it were more or less likely that this William and Jane were Henry's parents.
                        Phoenix - with charred feathers
                        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                          What was the name of Jane's youngest son and where was he born?
                          Kite, all the children with Jane in 1851 are born in Exmouth:

                          Charles 14
                          William 9
                          Lavinia 6
                          James 3

                          In 1841 there are no additional older children in the same household.

                          This is probably Lavinia's birth reg

                          Births Sep 1844
                          Parker Lavinia St Thomas 10 217

                          My gut feeling is that this is not the right family, but I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Firstly, thank you all for your comments and research so far.

                            1851 Census of Ipplepen, Devon gives me my GG/grandfather Henry Parker living with wife Jane and son William Henry Parker at Blackstone cottages. Henry was a Ag/Lab(worked on a farm). I have traced the Parker family 100% from this record and it's my right lineage. On the census it gives Henry's birthplace as Bristol and aged 23 at the time of the census, giving his year of birth as 1828.

                            I have a copy of William Henry Parker birth cert that comfirms Henry is the father and Jane is the mother. It also gives George as a middle name of Henry ,which was not included on the census return.

                            I have a record of baptism from Bristol records office for Henry George Parker. Parish of St. Philip & Jacob, Bristol dated 1826.

                            Baptism Index Volume 3 page 245( Reg 2g, Page 154, Number 1231).

                            It shows a Henry George Parker baptised 8th October 1826 aged 1 yr. Father's Forename William, mother's forename Jane. I have a photo copy of the entry that gives the occupation of William as MARINER and the abode is St. Stephens.

                            If you take the age from the 1851 census of Henry George Parker you get a birth date of 1828. I would say this may be an error on the enumerators part!! It seems to close to be anything other than his baptism record.

                            So, with the fact that Henry and Jane married in 1849 in St. Andrews church, Ipplepen, Devon. He gives his father's name as William Parker and occupation as 'Master Mariner'. I would be happy with these details so far to be correct.

                            I do have a record of Henry Parker in the 1841 census in Ipplepen at Bulleigh, occupation ag/lab aged 15, but born within the county(emerator's error maybe) with no sign of William or Jane.

                            I would like to be able to find the right William and Jane Parker and get past the wall I am currently at.

                            Thanks for you time and patients.

                            kind regards


                            Grahame

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Grahame, are you going to do as Merry suggested and get a birth certificate for one of William and Jane's children (perhaps Lavinia) to see what Jane's maiden name was, then look for William and Jane's marriage?
                              KiteRunner

                              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think that would be a good start....thanks again.

                                Grahame

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There is a William Parker born 1808 Exmouth listed in the "Captains Register" at the Guildhall Library in London, but the dates shown are 1855 onwards so it might not be yours. But if you can get there, it would be worth having a look.

                                  This link should take you to the page with all the info about the Captains Register, and then if you click on the letter P and page through the results you will see William Parker listed.
                                  Guildhall Library Manuscripts Section - Lloyd's Captains Registers: Introductory Note
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi all,

                                    Kite; I found the Master Mariner you also found from Exmouth. I would be 100% sure that is the husband of Jane Parker found in the 1851 census with children Charles, Lavina, William etc. This is the family I am ordering a birth cert for the child Lavina born 1844 to enable a maiden name for Jane. William and Jane would be the same age according to the Master's register born 1808 like Jane. When the cert arrives I think this will not be the family I am looking for, but would be nice.

                                    I have found a William Parker, Master Mariner from a NA search online. William Parker, Master Mariner who gained his Master on 21st April 1836( good dates). I have found the ships he was on;

                                    1836-HMS Champion
                                    1837-" " " "
                                    1838-" " " "
                                    1839-HMS Curacoa
                                    1841-" " " "
                                    1842-" " " "

                                    This shows a Master Mariner named William Parker serving in the Royal Navy. I do have a muster roll with his signature on.

                                    Question; Can I find his service record that might give a spouse name and then match it?

                                    Thanks for all your help

                                    Kind regards

                                    Grahame

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Good evening,

                                      The Birth cert of Lavinia Parker daughter of William Parker, Master Mariner and his wife Jane arrived today.

                                      Lavinia Parker;
                                      Born-6th August 1844 in Littleham, Exmouth Father- William Parker Mother- Jane Parker formerly LONG.Occupation of Father MASTER MARINER

                                      So where do we go from here, marriage cert if we can find it?

                                      Thanks so far,

                                      Grahame

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The marriage was likely to have been before 1837, so no cert :(
                                        DFHS seems your best bet & very reasonably priced
                                        Bridget

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