Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OOOO, my ancestor murdered Piers Gaveston!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OOOO, my ancestor murdered Piers Gaveston!

    I was vexed a while ago to see the Holden Coat of Arms wrongly represented by six eagles.

    I was googling for something else entirely today and got very sidetracked, lol, but came across the information that "six eagles was an alternative device for one branch of the Holdens and reflects the involvement of Robert de Holdene in the murder of Piers Gaveston, whose coat of arms was six eagles blah blah blah".

    Wikipedia doesn't mention Holden by name, but says that the Earl of Lancaster was incensed when one of his retainers was banished by Gaveston. Wonder if it really was my Robert?!

    OC

  • #2
    I remember they had (and no doubt still have) a Piers Gaveston Society at Oxford.
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

    Comment


    • #3
      Piers Gaveston was murdered by two Welshman!

      Comment


      • #4
        Ooh, how exciting, how did he do the dastardly deed, OC?
        To boldly go where no genealogist has gone before....

        Comment


        • #5
          Tut, keep up Merry - my Robert (I bet) was the favourite retainer, banished by Gaveston.

          I think the story has been twisted and it should read "Robert de Holdene was involved in the murder" (but didn't actually do anything, typical Holden, provide the ammo, then stand innocently well back!)

          Ummmm...should I be wondering why my ancestor was a favourite retainer of the Earl of Lancaster.......?

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            Well Piers Gaveston was Edward II's bum chum wasn't he?
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

            Comment


            • #7
              Erm, did I read that right Nell?

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, you did.
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Definitely, that's about all I know about him.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Depends whose version you believe, Nell - some scholar has come up with an alternative explanation (which I haven't bothered to read yet!)

                    Oh, what I would give for a time machine!

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can remember really fancying Piers Gaveston when I was at school, based on a novel that possibly glossed over some aspects of his life.;)
                      Phoenix - with charred feathers
                      Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK, the alternative version is that they were just very good friends.

                        A bit feeble.

                        I cannot find anything to connect the "faithful retainer" to Robert de Holden...but in 1312, Robert de Holden and his son Adam were granted a lot of land by Bishop de Lacy. The de Lacy family were involved in the Gaveston story a bit earlier on.

                        Well, it's a good story and it would explain how the Holdens have the Gaveston Arms. Both devices (Holden and Gaveston) are now represented in the Arms of the Corporation of Haslingden, lol!

                        Nice to know my noble ancestors have finished up on the side of a corporation dustcart!

                        OC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As a republican, I think that's the best place for them! I suppose you could say "My old ancestor's a dustman"
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I read somewhere one of the Kirkbys was a judge in the trial. Apparently John Kirkby also was given some papers to look after when Walter de Langton wasn't there. Can't remember if he died or was thrown out. Probably amounted to the same thing.

                            I just keep reading court reports....I know I'll find Kirkbys there for some reason or 'tother.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Libby

                              A family connection at last! Thomas de Holden married Agnes de Langton c 1400.

                              (But there is something very wrong with the recorded pedigrees at this point - Thomas died in 1441 and his son was born in 1481.......)

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well that makes my Read's more feasible. Charles died 1875 and his daughter was born 1877. Two years is nothing compared to 40 years, lol.
                                Kit

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Kit, perhaps your family are biologically unique in that they have longer gestation periods than us normal folks?! ;)
                                  Elizabeth
                                  Research Interests:
                                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Elizabeth Herts View Post
                                    Kit, perhaps your family are biologically unique in that they have longer gestation periods than us normal folks?! ;)

                                    What??? Kit is related to elephants?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      LOL, Merry!

                                      OH's 3xgt grandmother had a long gestation period with one of hers - claiming that the child was late hubby's when he had died over 2 years before!
                                      Elizabeth
                                      Research Interests:
                                      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        A friend's grandmother was born after a 17 year gestation period!! Child born in 1920, father named as mother's husband who was buried in 1903

                                        Of course, I had already traced his tree back to 1800 before I realised he wasn't a blood relative of her grandmother! (Not unless they had already invented longterm sperm storage in the Edwardian era )

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X