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My CARROLL wall... what should I do next?

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  • My CARROLL wall... what should I do next?

    My Great Grandfather, William Carroll (b abt 1857) came over from Ireland and settled in Liverpool. From the Census records I can trace and confirm he was living in West Derby, Lancs. (Liverpool) but I am only able to confirm this after his marriage to Winifred Dean (e) 12 Jan 1879.
    I have a positive trace on the 1881,91 and 1901 census all in the same area of West Derby all state born in Ireland. My mother started the tree 20 years ago and asked family for details. They say that he was from Mayo. My dad still stands by that so it has to be a reasonable pointer. I have no idea what Williams mother was named.
    William seems to just appear and my first document is his marriage to Winifred. Searches of pre 1881 census have not revealed any exciting possible or link to his parents. Maybe I am missing the obvious?
    This is what I have. Marriage Cert 12 Jan 1879, William Carroll, 24yrs, Bachelor, Labourer, 7 Rock Mount, West Derby. Father, William (Deceased) Labourer. Winifred Dean, 19yrs, spinster, Glasshouse Lane, West Derby, Father, James Dean, Labourer. William signed ‘the mark of’ indicating he could not write. Witnesses, Thomas Dean (brother of Winifred) and Mary Woods who lived next door to Winifred. I have to presume at this time that Williams father was born Ireland.
    The only possible link I have found was on the 1861 Census to the Royal Engineers in Brompton, Kent. William aged 5 and his father William aged 39 with wife Bridget and 2 other children born at sea, St Helena and the East Indies. I feel this is an unlikely match? A William on a School ship berthed near Liverpool in 1871 is doubtful due to William’s job and the fact he could not write.
    They went on to have at least 8 children. William died 5 October 1930, aged 73. The death cert offers no clues. His last job was a Fireman in the Borax Works, Old Swan, Liverpool.

    So.... where to now? I have sent for an Electoral Roll of 7 Rock Mount for 1878 (Just prior to marriage) to see if any other Carroll’s are about. I have visited his Catholic grave, nothing of note. Can anyone think of any other research I can do to try and trace relatives of William who may have travelled with him or the name of his mother? I feel that any searches in Ireland may throw up possibles and just make me want to guess.
    Any ideas from people who have had similar issues would be gratefully received.
    John

    Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

  • #2
    Have you tried this website? You may find something here.

    Birth Death Marriage Genealogy Records Ireland - Irish Family History Foundation
    Wendy



    PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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    • #3
      Hi Wendy, thank you, yes I have taken a peek and a couple of possibles are about. But I am reluctant to view them just yet as I need to try and get his mums name if possible. I guess thats the key that will unlock it.
      John

      Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

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      • #4
        John

        Forgive me if I am stating the ****** obvious, but you HAVE searched under O'Carroll, haven't you?

        Many Irish people dropped the O' prefix from their names because of its Irish connotations.

        OC

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        • #5
          OC... NO I have not done this. I will start on that. A fresh set of eyes thank you
          John

          Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

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          • #6
            Yes agree with OC. I have O'Carroll acquaintances in Plymouth, another Dock city!

            Janet

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            • #7
              The trouble is, there isn't really likely to be any way to get his mother's name except from his birth / baptism record. Though he may have named one of his daughters after her, possibly his second one?
              KiteRunner

              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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              • #8
                My goodness Kiterunner. I just Googled your theory on Irish traditions of naming children and I cannot believe this. I had never heard of it.
                Tradition was 1st son after Fathers Father..... William, correct!
                2nd son after mothers father..... James, correct!
                1st daughter after mothers mother....Ann, correct!
                2nd daughter after fathers mother..... BRIDGET
                3rd daughter after mother.... Winifred, correct!

                I feel like I have just watched 5 of my numbers come up on the lottery

                It seems they stuck to tradition and I would say Bridget is almost a banker and a great place to start digging with the OCarroll and variant spellings.

                Thank you all..... My dad said to me last night the answers are in that pile of notes and certificates on my desk. He could well be right!
                PS... I am the 3 generation John lol
                John

                Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not set in stone by any means, but a website looking at the distribution of names in Ireland is always a very useful idea to consider, so the following may be of help.

                  Incidentally the better name to search was Carroll, as not so many came up for O'Carroll!

                  Irish Genealogy Search Ireland, Irish Genealogy Search Ireland

                  The naming pattern for Ireland is very important as in Scotland. Now look at your names and see the "English" ones as opposed to the Irish names. William, unlike England, is not that common in Ireland, whereas there are Brigids, Annes (usually with the Catholic spelling of an e) and James everywhere. I have not seen many Winifreds either. The name William was too much associated with King Biily and his exploits around the Boyne in the 1600's to ever be a popular name amongst Ireland's 80% catholics! Of all my Irish ancestors I have only ever come across one William and that was from a so called "English" family!!

                  First base for Irish ancestors is to try to get them back into a county at least. William Carroll Ireland will not get you very far, so try all census to see if you can get more than just Ireland. I had to wait for the 1891 Census to get my grt g mother to Fermoy and had to wait till the 1901 census to get her to the townland of Kilworth Fermoy Co Cork. Look at all the original census entries, not just the typwritten entries. Try newspapers for deaths to see if there are any clues as to where they might be from in Ireland Once you have an area back to the 1850's and 1860's in Ireland you can use the Griffiths Valuation to find out the distribution of families in a given area and that can be very useful.

                  Janet
                  Last edited by Janet; 08-09-08, 10:01.

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                  • #10
                    Thank you very much Janet. I have printed off what you say and will make use of your kind advice
                    John

                    Brick wall in Ireland demolished after 25 years! Looking for any more Carrolls of Stradbally Parish, Waterford in particular Thomas Carroll b1861 married Bridget Leavy 1896 in QLD Australia..chipping away!

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