Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Would you put this child in your tree?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Would you put this child in your tree?

    I have have just received the death certificate of a so many x great aunt, whose cause of death is given as "Child Birth".

    She died aged 22 and was a widow.

    I cannot see a birth reference in the same quarter as her death (she died May 1861), and neither can I see a death reference for a baby in the same year.

    I presume the baby was still born (if born at all), but would you put it into your tree as Child Gregson?


    Thanks

    Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

  • #2
    I would widen your search as it may not be in the same quarter or year - this I know from experience.
    Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

    Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

    Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

    Comment


    • #3
      Once I was as certain as I could be that this wasn't a live birth (see Pippa's post!) I wouldn't add the child as a new individual on my tree, but I would add a note to say where I had looked and what I had done to try and establish what happened and that the child was presumably still born.

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you considered that the child might have been born alive but not registered (as it was before 1875) and then 101 things might have happened to the child by the following census.

        It's a difficult one, I have to say.

        Comment


        • #5
          Tom, one of my paternal aunts died in 1930. My mum told me she'd given birth to twins but they were still born. I found no trace of them being registered so I assume this was true. Here's part of what I added to notes on details of my aunt.

          Clara was buried July 1st 1930 age 32 years at St Barnabas Churchyard, Burnmoor, County Durham. She died of 1) Cardiac Failure, 2) Acute Nephritis caused by Pregnancy. Family story is still born twins were born to Clara prior to her death. No birth records for the babies could be found.
          Daphne

          Looking for Northey, Goodfellow, Jobes, Heal, Lilburn, Curry, Gay, Carpenter, Johns, Harris, Vigus from Cornwall, Somerset, Durham, Northumberland, Cumberland, USA, Australia.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would just put it into the "notes" section for the mother, but not add a box for the child. For one thing, wouldn't you have to decide whether to put it down as male or female? And if it was stillborn, well, I don't think I would want to start on adding stillborn children to my tree to be honest.
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              I have a few stillborn children in my tree but there are certs to back up their existence.

              It is really up to you whether you do or not. If you want the child 'remembered' or feel attached to either the child and/or mum do it, after all it is your tree. Just remember to add notes as to why you can't get certs.

              There is also the option that the child did survive and was adopted by a family member. It is unlikely you will find out though.
              Kit

              Comment


              • #8
                Are you able to access parish registers for the place she lived/died? It is likely that, if the child was born alive, even if not registered he/she was baptised. The vicar might even have added a note to the entry if he had also carried out mum's funeral.
                Judith passed away in October 2018

                Comment


                • #9
                  To me the answer is whether your tree forms part of a genealogy or part of a family history.
                  If the latter then add the still-born infant to the tree.

                  My mother-in-law had a boy who was still-born, no one in her family dared to mention the birth for many years.
                  After I married Kay, my wife, I was told about the still-birth and added him to the family-tree. My-mother-in-law was ecstatic. She thanked me profusely as I had recognised her son who she had carried for nine months. She told me that she had been grieving alone for the intervening years as no one acknowledged the birth.
                  To me family history includes all events in a family not just the boring births, marriages and deaths but the details that explain why a family developed in the manner it did.
                  Cheers
                  Guy
                  Guy passed away October 2022

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    One of my close relatives was very keen on family history and she left a few family trees which have been useful to me in doing mine, but she certainly never put her stillborn child on her tree although there was no secret about it, and I know that her surviving children would be absolutely horrified if I put it on my tree.
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kit the Kat View Post
                      I have a few stillborn children in my tree but there are certs to back up their existence.
                      Were they certificates already held by family members? (please don't answer that if you don't wish to)......

                      It's just that I wanted to find out about the two children who would have been my half-brothers or half-brother and half-sister, but as I am not the parent of these children I was told the stillborn register is closed to me (both the parents are dec'd). I would have liked to have found out more, but I am left with just the birth and death cert for my half-sister who died at a few hours old and who I didn't know existed until about two years ago.

                      I have put my half-sister on my tree, but not the other two as I have no way of knowing if these children really existed, or whether my cousin, who told me about them, had got her wires crossed! She wasn't aware of the baby who lived for a few hours.

                      As an only child myself I feel very sad that I can never know anything of these other children who would have been very much wanted by my father and his first wife and for whom she risked her life (Dads first wife was told she shouldn't have children as she would probably not survive a pregnancy), as it was she may have survived three pregnancies, but died a few years later aged 37.

                      Oh, sorry I've gone on a bit!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kit's not around at the moment, Merry. If hers were Australian there are some certs you can buy. I found a stillborn male born to one of OH's family in the 1940s on the NSW index. I could've bought the cert online.

                        No idea about UK, though.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You have some proof of the fact that this person was carrying a child when she died in that she died in childbirth written on the death certificate. Surely it therefore does not matter whether or not the child was stillborn/lived and was adopted or died a few days or months later. I am in aggreement with Guy on this one. The fact that she died in childbirth, like so many of our ancestors, should be acknowledged and placed on the "tree" ,not necessarily as a named child, but contained within the notes and recognised as such for future generations, not just ignored. I have a friend whose first child was still born, and she eventually had to come to terms with the fact. She grieved for many years without realising that it was mainly because she had not recognised him for the child that she had, though stillborn. My grandmother died a few days after giving birth to her tenth child, but he was baptised as Peter and lived for six weeks. I have no birth or baptismal certificate for Peter but all the family have talked about him, so he is officially on my tree as he has been a living person to all the family. I have made notes to the effect that I have no certs for him but have acknowledged him as the rest of family have done over the years.

                          Janet

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Merry, I feel for you. It would be nice to know you had had siblings.

                            Libby is right. The stillbirths were Australian. Once a pregnancy is over 20 weeks in Australia the baby has to be buried and will have a death certificate. If the parent didn't name the baby the indexes often say stillborn in the first name spot, in NSW at least.

                            I agree with Guy it does add to a person's life but after reading Kate's post you would have to be careful about such things. Add the child by all means but if it would cause distress to others then sanitise the tree before giving it to others.
                            Kit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I hadn't realised this would be such an emotive issue, it is something that obviously affects more people than I thought it did. I think I am probably naiive though as it has never happened in my family (that I know about).

                              I think I will just put the info into the mother's notes. It is very sad though as it was a whole family wiped out in a couple of months. The husband died in April aged 25 and then the wife died in childbirth in May aged 23.

                              Thank you everyone for your replies.

                              Tom.

                              Edit: I have just remembered that my great grandmother may have had still born babies (or they were possibly miscarriages). I do remember though that it was said if they were still born then my grandad would have been able to get the certificates.

                              Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Merry, from the GRO site:

                                Due to the sensitive nature of stillbirth registrations, the procedure for ordering a certificate of the entry differs from other types of certificates. We will only send out the application form after we have been contacted by phone or in writing by the mother or father (if he is named on the certificate). In cases where the parents are deceased, a brother or sister can apply if they can provide their parents’ dates of death.

                                Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Thanks Tom.

                                  Apparently, half siblings don't count :(

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                                    Apparently, half siblings don't count :(
                                    That seems most unfair. So many mothers must have died as a result of these situations and fathers remarried.
                                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Exactly, uncle John.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Merry do you know the date of death of your father's first wife? If yes, just fill out the form as if you are 'their' child. I'm sure they wont go checking the actual certs to see that you aren't a child of both.

                                        It is incredibly unfair that you can't get the certs given your relationship to them. Try getting your local member of parliament to help you. That rule is being inappropriately applied.
                                        Kit

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X