Mysterious Grandparents

[staticgirl]

Hallo!

I'm a wee bit stuck. My grandparents gave my dad away to the children's home after he was born and all I have are their names on a copy of his birth certificate. However, they didn't even sign it. The 'proprietor and owner' of somewhere called 'Holmecroft' in Louth, Lincolnshire was the one who notified the authorities. Holmecroft seems to have been some kind of place where people were born and died but doesn't seem to be part of the hospital system then extant.

My mum is checking the Children's Home website to get my dad's details (my dad passed on in 1990 and this is our way of keeping close to him) and hopes to get a copy of his records if they weren't bombed or something.

His mother's name was Dorothy Hesp and his father's name was John Pacey. I know that John Pacey died in March 1968 because the probate office wrote to my dad, (Colin Arthur Pacey born 1941) to say they had searched for relatives and found him and Uncle Brian, his brother.

So I've looked in the National Archives for a Holmecroft... with little success.
I've looked for a death cert for John Pacey on 2 years either side of 1968 in the Stallingborough district of Lincolnshire where he lived. I've found nothing. I have looked up Dorothy Hesp as it is an unusual name but none of the ones I've found seem young enough or old enough to have kids in 1941. I've found a possible marriage but it's in Sheffield in 1918. These are country folk so would they travel?

1. Why would they not sign it? Might they have been illiterate?
2. How do you find out about a place when the local librarians don't know it and the National Archives have nothing?
3. If someone has been found dead and they are presumably intestate, might this have some bearing on why I can't find their death cert?

The annoying thing is that Stallingborough where the Pacey family seems to come from is tiny and in 1901 (400 odd residents) I have already found my likely great or great great grandparents and family in the census. They were labourers and school children. But no John! If he was born later that makes a 1918 marriage unlikely. Argh!

I would be very grateful if anyone could give me some pointers on where to look as we are getting a little downhearted. It sometimes feels like they were covering their tracks.

[fiona c]

Hello,

My dads birth was registered by his grandmother, she was present at the birth. His mother could read and write so that wasn't the reason for the grandmother registering the birth in this case.

There is a death in Mar quarter of 1968 for a John Pacey, Reg Dist Grimsby, 3B, 410. Age is given as 61.

That could very well be the death your looking for, if he died in Hospital and it was a bit away from where he lived he might not be registered in the district you'd think.

[staticgirl]

I could HUG you!

*hugs*

I'm very very new at this!

edit: do you mind telling me where you find it as ancestry doesn't seem to have it?

Thankyou.

[fiona c]

Have you looked for a death for Dorothy around the time of the youngest childs birth?

It might be the children were put into a home because the mother died and the father couldn't work and care for the children, he might not have had and family close by.

[fiona c]

There is a death in Dec 1942, Dorothy Pacey, N. Kesteven, 7a, 488. Aged 32.

[staticgirl]

By jiminy you are good at this. Are you using Ancestry.co.uk? Even when I use your details it says 'no match'.

I cannot say thank you enough I really can't. I bet Dorothy was in Boston hospital and John was in Grimsby Hospital.

[fiona c]

I am using Ancestry but for those years you'd need to search the bmd index image pages themselves.

Was the possible marriage you found Hull, Yorkshire 1937?

[fiona c]

You'd need to get the marriage certificate for the fathers name to confirm having the right birth certificate but there is a birth for

Dorothy Hesp, Mar 1910, Beverley, 9d, 97.

Birth details from the Freebmd website.

[KiteRunner]

Hi,

I might be able to go and look at the probate entry tomorrow as I think my local record office goes up to 1968 - though if it took a long time for probate / administration to be granted then it won't be there. I can also look to see whether Dorothy left a will. As for the informant on the birth certificate, it definitely isn't anything to do with not being able to write - many such parents registered their children's births and marked an X. I have been told that it was standard practice at some hospitals / nursing homes for the staff to register the births so it could just be that or perhaps the parents couldn't for some reason - father away in the army and mother ill?

[staticgirl]

The marriage I found was in Sheffield in 1918 and at the time, not having any age details we wondered if she died from being too old to have kids easily. We didn't think it that likely.

Hull isn't too far away from Grimsby as the crow flies and Hesp is a more Northern name than Pacey so I shall follow up those leads and find out!

[samesizedfeet]

There's a birth for a Dorothy Hesp in Beverley in 1910 (march quarter) which matches the age at death for Dorothy Pacey

Dorothy Hesp
1910 March
Beverley 9d 97

[fiona c]

You can find the marriage for Dorothy and John Pacey on the yorkshire bmd site.

Yorkshire Births Marriages & Deaths

[staticgirl]

Hi,

I might be able to go and look at the probate entry tomorrow as I think my local record office goes up to 1968 - though if it took a long time for probate / administration to be granted then it won't be there. I can also look to see whether Dorothy left a will. As for the informant on the birth certificate, it definitely isn't anything to do with not being able to write - many such parents registered their children's births and marked an X. I have been told that it was standard practice at some hospitals / nursing homes for the staff to register the births so it could just be that or perhaps the parents couldn't for some reason - father away in the army and mother ill?

John is listed as being a plate layer for LNER who had a line which ended in Grimsby and a station in tiny Stallingborough. He may or may not have been an essential worker but if he was called up at that time it would explain even more....

Thanks for everyone's help. This is a decades old family mystery that my uncle and dad were unable to solve and I know it hurt them. Their poor mum!

[Mary from Italy]

I can't find any confirmation yet, but I'm wondering if Holmecroft might have been the workhouse or a similar establishment. They often had hospitals attached, where women could give birth even if they weren't workhouse inmates.

1942's perhaps a bit late for that, though.

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

There is a useful bmd databse on the North Lincs Council website with links to order the certificates from the local registrars, the local registrars might be handy as and when you want to order a certificate with a ref check, if they can't supply a cert they don't charge for looking whereas the GRO only give a partial refund.

North Lincs cover the northern part of Lincolnshire (and what was known as Humberside).

North Lincolnshire Council - Family history research

For the remainder of Lincolnshire you could always use the main Lincolnshire Registration service, they offer an online, postal, telephone and personal application for certificates and scan the original documents too. The link to the council site is in my signature.

[Mary from Italy]

There's a house called Holmecroft in the village of South Killingholme, Lincs. Not found out anything about it yet.

It's about 25 miles from Louth, though.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Lots of "big houses" were commandeered for maternity hospitals, and other hospital uses, during the war, usually out of the city for safety.

If her husband was in the forces, then she would have been entitled to go to the hospital free of charge. It wasn't necessarily a workhouse type place.

As she died in 1942 and her husband was probably away in the forces, then the children would automatically have been taken into care.

I would want to get her death cert, to see what she died of.

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Also bear in mind that Lincolnshire was a hotbed of airfields during WWII as well as the farming connections.

As OC says there were many buildings turned over to military and medical use at the time, Nocton near Lincoln had one such example, the hall was used as a hospital and the village has been connected to the RAF for many years.

[staticgirl]

Thanks so very much!
Mary from Italy - I wondered something similiar but I found out the place which was the workhouse was changed over into the main hospital in Louth in the early 20th Century. It turned out to have quite an interesting history and Louth library had things like subscription cards for the donors that helped keep it open until the NHS started.And thanks for finding that house. Lincolnshire folk are quite used to travelling a long way to get medical health care so if it was in the Louth registration district (which I shall check) that may well be the one!

Thanks to everyone else for the useful tidbits of history and links to where to get the certs from. I can't believe how helpful you've all been! you've given me so much to look up!

[KiteRunner]

I had a look for the Paceys in the National Probate Calendar but found nothing, but like I said, my local record office only goes up to 1968 so probably the entry is listed under 1969 or something.