John Seymour?? Can anyone help?

[castanea1985]

I have John Seymour b. c.1886 (not sure where)
Only have his wedding cert (Feb 6 1913) where he was aged 27

I'm trying to trace his early years??

On his wedding cert he was a batchelor and was a Collier living at 5 Ash St. Failsworth.
His father was deceased but was also called John and also a collier.

Can anyone find either of them in the censuses?? I've tried but had no luck!

Thanks

Tracy

[Christine in Herts]

Does the M-cert give a father's name? Any useful witnesses? Dd he live near his future bride?

Christine

[margaretmarch]

Hi Castanea,

I found this entry in the 1901 census living in Durham where there was a lot of coal mining

- Ancestry.co.uk

which shows father John Seymour is 'coal hewer' and son John is 'putter in coal mine' They could both be described as 'colliers' as a broad description of mine workers.
The age for John the son is given as 20 so that doesn't tie in with your age on marriage certificate.
Margaret

[Rachel Scand]

According to my road atlas, Failsworth is on the outskirts of Manchester .... just in case anyone else is wondering

Is it the marriage in Prestwich, Lancs ?

[tessie31082]

have found a john seymour living in laystone, herts in the 1901 census. Father, mother and siblings etc named. As he is only 15 no job given. however father is carpenter(what i can read) not collier! Something to keep in mind.

[castanea1985]

Thanks for looking

I kept putting all the relevant bits into Ancestry like collier, etc... but still didn't get anywhere.

Any more suggestions would be great.

Thanks again

Tracy

[Uncle John]

Coalminers tended to stay put unless the coal seams ran out. The Lancashire coalfield was still going strong into the 1960s, unlike Fife and Kent which were closing down by then. So I'd look for him in the Manchester area.

I have Cumbrian iron-ore miners who went south to dig coal when the iron ore ran out.

[castanea1985]

Coalminers tended to stay put unless the coal seams ran out. The Lancashire coalfield was still going strong into the 1960s, unlike Fife and Kent which were closing down by then. So I'd look for him in the Manchester area.

I have Cumbrian iron-ore miners who went south to dig coal when the iron ore ran out.

Thanks for that Uncle John!
Where were the coal mines around Manchester?? He lived in Failsworth when he got married and his wife was from Newton Heath.
Thanks
Tracy

[Val and George]

I don't know if this will be of any help - but could it possibly be a mistranslation? I have just sent in a 'correction' for the 1851 census for the surname Seymour - which they had transcribed as Sunman??? I know, I know - and it was so obviously Syemour to look at! Try putting in the information except for the surname and see if it comes up with anything. Just a thought! Good luck - Val

[Val and George]

Even I can't transcribe properly - I meant Seymour in that third line!!!! oops - sorry

[Uncle John]

Thanks for that Uncle John!
Where were the coal mines around Manchester?? He lived in Failsworth when he got married and his wife was from Newton Heath.
Thanks
Tracy

All around! Mostly north and west of the city centre I think. I was brought up in South Yorkshire which also had coalmines all over.

[castanea1985]

Thanks Val,
Have just tried putting all the info in, but leaving the surname... and nothing has come up:(

Its really stumping me!!

I've just looked at the indexes and in 1886 there are 5 John Seymour's born in the following places:

Marylebone; Aukland; Wolverhampton; Swansea; Fulham.

So if anyone has any ideas - ie. which would be a strong mining area?? Thats presuming John snr was a collier when son John was born!?
I can't find any John Seymour's born in/around manchester at that time, so am guessing they did move from somewhere else.

Tracy

[KiteRunner]

Tracy, I don't think you ever said who the witnesses were at John's wedding?

[Rachel Scand]

Tracy, I don't think you ever said who the witnesses were at John's wedding?

Or whether the marriage in Prestwich is the correct one (post # 4)

[Uncle John]

I've just looked at the indexes and in 1886 there are 5 John Seymour's born in the following places:

Marylebone; Aukland; Wolverhampton; Swansea; Fulham.

So if anyone has any ideas - ie. which would be a strong mining area??

Marylebone and Fulham, definitely not.

The others are all possibilities. There was a huge South Wales coalfield until relatively recently. There was also a big coalfield in the North-east (remember the expression "carrying coals to Newcastle"). And coal was one of the reasons for the development of the "Black Country".

[castanea1985]

Or whether the marriage in Prestwich is the correct one (post # 4)

Sorry, guys! Only giving half a tale!!;)

Yes the Prestwich marriage was the correct one!
Mary Jane Sidlow ( a widow) aged 30 profession - A Tenter from All Saint's, Newton Heath. Father - James Ashworth (deceased) occupation - a fitter.

The witnesses: William Jones (signed himself) & Jane Richardson ( x her mark).

I think I've got the years wrong too!!!! Durr!!
If John was 27 on Feb 6th 1913, then I think that puts his poss birthday to:
7th Feb 1885 to 6 th Feb 1886

So have done a bit more digging in the indexes and have found the following:

1885 March q - John Henry...... Newcastle
1885 June q - John................. Wantage
- John................. Bethnel Green
- John William...... Royston
1885 Sept q - John William...... Nottingham
1885 Dec q - none
1886 March q - John .............. Marylebone
- John .............. Aukland

I guess Royston (Wakefield area) would be a possible as would Aukland.... but not sure if any of the other areas had mines??

Then I've some how got to find out if any of these possible John's had fathers who were a John and a collier? Any suggestions... apart from buying all the certs??

Thanks

Tracy

[Uncle John]

have found the following:

1885 March q - John Henry...... Newcastle
1885 June q - John................. Wantage
- John................. Bethnel Green
- John William...... Royston
1885 Sept q - John William...... Nottingham
1885 Dec q - none
1886 March q - John .............. Marylebone
- John .............. Aukland

I guess Royston (Wakefield area) would be a possible as would Aukland.... but not sure if any of the other areas had mines??

Newcastle, Royston (if it is the one near Wakefield), Nottingham and Auckland (with a C) if it's Bishop Auckland area are all coal mining areas.

Wantage (Berkshire) and Bethnal Green, definitely not.

[castanea1985]

Newcastle, Royston (if it is the one near Wakefield), Nottingham and Auckland (with a C) if it's Bishop Auckland area are all coal mining areas.

Wantage (Berkshire) and Bethnal Green, definitely not.

Thanks for that!!

Tracy