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If you thought I have it easy with the Holdens..

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  • If you thought I have it easy with the Holdens..

    This isn't really a request for help, more a necessary vocalisation of my frustration!

    Dear old Gilbert Holden of Holden died in 1549 and left a very nice Will, naming all five of his children. For some reason, no child ever gets called Gilbert again.

    Except:

    October 1718
    Gilbert Holden of the parish of Burnley married Elizabeth Madern at Rochdale Church.

    From Chester Marriage Bonds:

    He was Gilbert Holden of Holden, nr the chapel of Burnley, gent. The Bondsman was himself and his brother, John Holden of Holden, gent.

    There was never a Gilbert Holden of Holden after 1549. The Holden of Holden in 1718 was Robert Holden, who died without issue, and certainly didn't have a brother called Gilbert as far as I have researched.

    I found this in a book called Haslingden, by Thomas Woodcock.

    He too says "Who ARE these men?"

    Was Elizabeth Madern sold a pup, lol. What did she do when she discovered he wasn't Holden of Holden?!

    OC

  • #2
    *pats OC gently on the head and gives her a sweetie to keep her quiet*
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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    • #3
      I don't WANT a sweetie!

      I want to know who this imposter was!

      OC

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      • #4
        Oh... OC.....I wouldn't say 'easy' but......
        You are very lucky to be able to get back to 1549...I wish I could.
        My 1810 frustration has to be far worse.....lol (oh I tried but can't do a smile or a big grin tonight)
        Kathleen

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        • #5
          Kath

          I've got back to (possibly) 980, thanks to Cool Blue!

          However, if you could see the tangled mess they all are, not helped by repeated names in every generation, multiple marriages, bigamy, illegitimacy, backstabbing and the sheer unadulterated lunacy that shines through, you might be very happy with 1810!!!

          OC

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
            Kath

            I've got back to (possibly) 980, thanks to Cool Blue!

            However, if you could see the tangled mess they all are, not helped by repeated names in every generation, multiple marriages, bigamy, illegitimacy, backstabbing and the sheer unadulterated lunacy that shines through, you might be very happy with 1810!!!

            OC
            Ah...and in the 60s we were the permissive society.........but I'm still envious of your acheivments lol.....
            Kathleen

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            • #7
              1810???

              I can't get past 1830 with some of my folk!

              OC
              Maybe this Gilbert was called something else originally and adopted the name Gilbert in later life. Or perhaps he was really called Fish and called himself Gilbert for obvious reasons - Gill-bert. Geddit!
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                *on second thoughts, give her a valium to soothe her overheated imagination*
                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                  1810???

                  I can't get past 1830 with some of my folk!

                  OC
                  Maybe this Gilbert was called something else originally and adopted the name Gilbert in later life. Or perhaps he was really called Fish and called himself Gilbert for obvious reasons - Gill-bert. Geddit!
                  1810 is a frustraing era for me...but I think I am lucky to get back this far, as I have three generations of baptisms missing. I'm just lucky my grandfather wrote a list of his ancestors birthdates.
                  Kathleen

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                  • #10
                    Nell

                    Let's see if I've got this right....I should be looking for Albert Fish, then?

                    (Forgot to say earlier....Holden was never in the parish of Burnley)

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      Oh dear OC, I do sympathise!!!!

                      I had the exact opposite problem around the same era.

                      A particular posh landowner called Gervaise Clifton ......... I had this theory he was a key person, one who was going to single-handedly knock down at least 2 brick walls, having married into the family twice.

                      And what a name!!! How many people were going to be called Gervaise Clifton?? Only one, surely ..................!

                      Nope! There were 13 consecutive generations of Gervaise Cliftons in that family and as they didn't even have the decency to die young, there were at least 3 of them alive at any one time. :D

                      That was well over a year ago - I still haven't worked them out.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post


                        (Forgot to say earlier....Holden was never in the parish of Burnley)

                        OC
                        Maybe this guy knows, OC

                        Alex Holden
                        To boldly go where no genealogist has gone before....

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                        • #13
                          Hmmmm....maybe he does....

                          Holden was never in Burnley, but Palace House was.(Habergham Eaves, to be exact). Palace House was the later seat of the Holdens after they had disposed of the old manor house.

                          However...there was never a flaming Gilbert living there, certainly not in 1718!

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Ooooh! I've caught Gilbert by the toe, I think! He was churchwarden in Bury for at least 20 years, he and his brother John, both described as "gents".

                            A Gilbert Holden occupied a grand house called the Hollins, in 1730 and the house was still in the possession of the Holden family early 1800s.

                            But...he still wasn't a Holden of Holden, the little fibber, at least not very directly since 1549.

                            Off to explore this new branch and try to work out whose son he was....how exciting!

                            OC

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                            • #15
                              I'm so pleased you are happy, OC. The Kirkbys have given me a right royal headache.

                              If you find Hollins has any connection to Hollinbancke (or Hollinsbancke) can you let me know. lol.

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                              • #16
                                I've often wondered what the initials OCD stood for. Now I'm beginning to understand!
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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