Help to trace Mary

[Pipeman]

In a effort to trace my G/Gma's background I want to find her at home on the 1851 Census, but can't.
Her Marr. Cert. details say:-

Married at Cath & Parish Church, in the Parish of Manchester,
( Does the above mean they could have had 2 marriages, 1 Catholic and 1 Angican? I know my G/Gdad was Bap'd a Catholic and the marriage was by Banns)

Mary Chapman, aged 21, Resident- Salford, Father- Samuel Chapman, (Dyer).

I have done a trace on Ancestry with a 5 year +/- but can only find 3 Marys with a father named Samuel. 2 in Norfolk DoB 1835 and 1 in Northamptonshire Dob 1839; all were born and resident on the same Countys.

I have searched the 1841 Census for Lancashire and the ones shown up on Norfolk and Northampton but nothing.

This is all I know of Mary. Is there anyway I can find out more or is this the point one hates to say THATS YOUR LOT

[kylejustin]

was she alive in 1881, and have you found her any later than 1851?

[kylejustin]

and what's with the samuel chapman/dyer?

[Elaine ..Spain]

What was the date of the marriage - so we can work out approx year of birth for Mary?
Any idea of place of birth - from a later census?

[Cool Blue]

Mary Chapman, aged 21, Resident- Salford, Father- Samuel Chapman, (Dyer).

If she is a Salford resident, there's always the problem of the dreaded water-damaged returns...
Janexxx

[Pipeman]

Thanks for coming back to me and the offer of help. Sorry, no matter how careful you/I try to be , (I) always seem to miss something out.

Mary was married in 1856, so if she really was 21, she would have been born about 1835.

Her father was Samuel Chapman, who was a Dyer. I assume he must have worked in a mill.

She was about in 1881 Married to my G/Gdad, but it is before her marriage that I am interested in, so I can hopefully trace something of her family background. 1841 or 51 might have given me her Mum's name whch would have helped.

Yes 'Cool Blue', I had thought of the missing census, and tried not to think too much about it, but it is a strong possibility. I have contacted the HLFHS who are doing some research, but they have not found them as yet.

[Olde Crone Holden]

The 1851 wet census for Salford is available pay per view on Family History online.

EDIT - if she married John Kilbride, then it looks as if it WAS a RC marriage.

OC

[Pipeman]

Elaine, just as I sent my last note I noticed your comment about Mary's PoB, on the 1861 Census, just after their marriagr , She was born in Salford. But it doesn't help, she still isn't there in 1851!!

[Pipeman]

OC H, Yes I know about wet Census, I am a member of the M+LFHSoc, and checked with the Sec, They don't have her on those they have researcged. Thanks

[Pipeman]

Done it again!, OCH, SHe married Edward Neil, but most of the family entries on a census are Neill. I have his birth certificate and the family were Niell. He was Catholic. By 1871 they were now O'Neill !!!! and stayed that way from then on.

[Pat Hope]

According to Lancs BMD they married at Manchester Cathedral

[Little Nell]

Yes, I wondered if "Cath & parish church" meant "Cathedral and parish church"

[Elaine ..Spain]

This might be her christening (from the IGI) - which would help pinpoint her age

MARY CHAPMAN
Christening: 24 AUG 1834 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire

Parents Samuel Chapman and Hannah

[Elaine ..Spain]

I have tried searching using different combinations of Samuel, Hannah and Mary and cannot see anything in 1841 or 1851.

[kylejustin]

at least finding her on later censuses gives a chance to become more familiar with her. there may be relations or visitors who pop up, that might be born near her. there are a lot of of times whwn my ancestors had visitors who appeared unrelated, only to find out they were siblings or grandchildren.

do you have siblings? if you know a siblings name, you can find them on the census, and see if they wereliving with family. i traced a family, and found a brother, who had living with him- his grandpa!! i didn't know the grandpa was alive in 1851, and he died the following year aged 90. so, i guess if you have a sibling, you might find something like that?

[Pipeman]

Thanks for all the help and advice your offering.
L Nell, I never thought that Cath could mean Cathedral and Parish. It was because the Marr/Cert said banns were said in both Churches

ElainThe IGI makes sense, so I had a look in H.Wallis's list and found a Samuel and Hannah Chapman Christened a son Daniel in 1824.

Now I have Samuel, Hannah, Daniel and Mary but still I cant find any of them in 41 or51. Did folk go on package holidays in early April in those days???????