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  • Help please with a birth at sea

    I am trying to trace a birth at sea in July 1849. It is for a Fanny Nelson P Dunsford, mother Mary, I believe she was on her way home to England from Australia, can anyone help me please or tell me where to look for it,

  • #2
    Hi whitbread and welcome to FTF. I'll ask a mod. to make your message into a new thread, so it doesn't get mixed up.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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    • #3
      Hi Whitbread and welcome to FTF.

      Have moved your post into a new thread. I think it may have got lost if it had been left in the original one.
      Elaine







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      • #4
        Thanks very much, Trevena

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        • #5
          Hello Whitbread,

          that name takes me back a few years with "Trophy Bitter".. I digress..

          I would think, that you would need to check the birth index where the ship docked?

          do you know where the ship docked?? at all
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

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          • #6
            right,

            had a bit of a shuftie on ancestry....

            1851 census

            Mary Dunsford,-mar-age 33- capt's wife. born Clist Honiton, Devon
            Henry Dunsford -son-age 6 scholar. b. sidney aus
            Sopha Dunsford- dau- age 4 scholar. ditto
            Fanny Dunsford-dau-age 2. ditto.
            Henry Fish - Relative- age 23, cordwainer, b. clist honiton devon. (i'm betting her brother)

            Class: HO107; Piece: 1866; Folio: 158; Page: 14;
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

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            • #7
              Thanks Julie, yes I too found rthat on Ancestry and on the 1891 census it say born at sea (from Australia). Unfortunately it never said which she she was on and I have not been able to find out. If I could then I may be able to find her birth details and parents. Trevena

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              • #8
                Not sure if you have this from the IGI

                FANNY NELSON DUNSFORD
                Birth: 21 JUL 1849
                Christening: 13 FEB 1851 Clyst Honiton, Devon, England

                Parents Henry Dunsford & Mary

                (Extracted record)
                Elaine







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                • #9
                  Ahh is that your tree that is on ancestry then?? with the images etc?? of fanny? (I couldnt see cos it is private)

                  I take it you have fannys marriage in islington? london

                  just as a matter of course I presume you have had a look for a marriage between a mary fish and a ? dunsford in clist honiton?

                  dont mean to sound patronising.. is not meant to
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wonder if this birth registration is relevant (from freeBMD)

                    Births Dec 1848
                    Nelson Female
                    St Thomas volume 10 page 201

                    The registration district for Cryst Honiton is St Thomas

                    Sorry just realised, if we are to believe the IGI then it is too early!
                    Last edited by Elaine ..Spain; 28-08-08, 22:01.
                    Elaine







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                    • #11
                      The IGI has a marriage between a Henry Dunsford and Mary but I have checked the parish record myself and had the parish clerk check it and there is no such marriage. Yes I have Fanny's marriage to William Underwood, but I doubt that would tell me anything about her birth. Thanks Trevena

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                      • #12
                        You probably know that Sophia and Henry's births are recorded in Sydney, parents Henry and Mary.
                        Henry 1845 and Sophia 1846.
                        Phoenix - with charred feathers
                        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                        • #13
                          Hi Yes thank you, I even managed to get a copy of the birth entries in the register. I am trying to pinpoint Henry (the father) on Fanny's birth record, Trevena

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                          • #14
                            Most of the references I come up with by googling are the questions that you have put on other forums and I can see that you have done a great deal of research.

                            Have you found Henry's records at Kew? Unfortunately, they will peeter out just at the relevant time, but should list the earlier voyages. I cannot remember the coverage for crew lists, but if he were captain, the odds are that he continued with the same ship for a number of voyages and you might be able to pick up his voyage. There is coding for the actual ports the voyages were to and from.

                            Chris and Michael Watts have published two very useful books. One is "My Ancestor was a Merchant Seaman" the other has a title something like "Births Marriages and Deaths at Sea". They are extremely detailed and suggest all sorts of different sources to use.
                            Phoenix - with charred feathers
                            Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                            • #15
                              Yes I have been to Kew and found him on one or two ships. There are however no records for these ships, likewise I have been to the NMM and found his Master's certificate but again none of the other papers have survived. I do know the name on the ships he mastered and they are the Elizabeth Jane (1847), the Jane Cain (1848/9/51) and the Enmore(1849/50). The reason I want to find Fanny's birth is to finally prove one way or another if this Henry is the same Henry who later went off and married Caroline Litten in Australia and had 5 children with her.
                              Last edited by Guest; 28-08-08, 23:48.

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                              • #16
                                I can't see that Fanny's birth will actually do that. Henry's merchant seaman's ticket ought to give his date and place of birth.

                                I am not familiar with Australian records, but might the death of the husband of Caroline Litten provide a place of birth for you to compare?

                                Have you looked for wills for Dunsfords?

                                The trouble with merchant seamen is that they don't confine themselves to England and Australia. I have a couple of brothers, contemporaries of your Henry. One witnesses a marriage in Shanghai and dies in Calcutta, another has a son born in Erromango in Vanutu. To date, I've only been able to infer the birth and death from other records. They hop and skip all over the place and take their wives and children with them.
                                Are there any Australian manifests showing passengers? I've found the family that way, though I cannot remember the name of the site, I'm afraid.
                                Phoenix - with charred feathers
                                Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by whitbread View Post
                                  I do know the name on the ships he mastered and they are the Elizabeth Jane (1847), the Jane Cain (1848/9/51) and the Enmore(1849/50).
                                  Do you know where these ships sailed to and from and whether they carried passengers? Long-distance runs (Liverpool to New York and Melbourne for example) were advertised extensively in The Times and the master's name was often quoted. Some local papers (e.g. the Newcastle Courant) carried Lloyds reports of sailings which often included masters' names.
                                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                  • #18
                                    Hi John and Pheonix, thanks for the replies. I do have the death of Carolin Litten's husband and it is Henry Dunsford in 1903 in NZ. The ships sailed to and from Australia and NZ and sometimes the Phillipines. I have lots of ref's from book for Captain Dunsford and found him on a manifest. The trouble is not finding Henry, that I have done in abundance but proving the two Henry's are the same one is the stumbling block. On Fanny's baptism entry it has her father as Master of the Goodship Jane Cane. Different spelling but I guess the same ship. I guess I have him nailed but what I want is not only Henry's name on the birth cert but the maiden name of the mother, Mary, it should be Irish or Fish. Henry's ships were advertised in the Times and in Australian newspapers so I have those. I just feel somehow that Fanny's birth cert might provide a few answers. I really have masses on Henry including about 7 of his signatures from various parts of the world but nothing absolutely concrete to tie him into one man.
                                    Last edited by Guest; 29-08-08, 12:04.

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                                    • #19
                                      Just another thought, would her marriage cert have the name of the ship she was born on, do you think, that might be a starting point

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by whitbread View Post
                                        Just another thought, would her marriage cert have the name of the ship she was born on, do you think, that might be a starting point
                                        hiya,

                                        I don't think the marriage cert will help, as you dont have to specify a POB on a marriage cert, (well UK ones anyway) just residence at the time of marriage.

                                        So her b/day isnt 21 July 1849 then??
                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

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