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Help, please! William Thomas Harrison, b. abt.1883

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  • Help, please! William Thomas Harrison, b. abt.1883

    Please help! Having managed to trace the rest of my tree back to 1580, I can't even get my paternal family name, Harrison, back to the censuses. After years of effort, it's driving me bonkers.

    Here's what I know (I can give exact dates if needed):

    William Thomas Harrison, b. about 1883 (don't know where), m.1915 to Elsie Louisa Turner in Bristol. d. bef. 1937. Served in the 15th Hussars and then the Royal Engineers, entering France in 1915 and discharged to the reserves in 1919. William's father was Alfred Harrison (of whom I know nothing).

    Elsie died in childbirth in 1921 at Chipping Sodbury and their 3 children were admitted to Brisol Orphanage, Ashley. I've sent off for the records from The Muller Foundation.

    The 3 kids were:

    Lilah Harrison (I know nothing of her, but it could be Lilah's birth that her mother died at)

    Dennis George Harrison (my grandfather), b.1917 in Bristol, m. 1942 to Florence Dale, d.1974 in Stafford. Served in the RAF, on MTBs in the Indian Ocean. They had a son Dennis Frank Harrison.

    Cecil William Harrison, b.1915, m.1937 to May Eastlake in Porthleven, d.1944 in a motorbike crash serving as a dispatch rider, Royal Signals. Buried at Porthleven/Helston and shown on the Porthleven war memorial. They had a daughter Margerita Harrison in 1938.

    In short, quite a sad tale. The sequence of dates show William getting married a week or so before being shipped out to fight in France, then a week before his first son was born. He survives the war only to lose his wife in childbirth, then his kids to the orphanage. Not sure what happens to him after that, but he's dead by 1937.

    In trying to get beyond William, I feel I've exhausted BMD indexes and can't find WW1 service/pension records (only his medal roll card). The infomation from the orphanage is my last hope, but somehow think it won't help with the million dollar question - where was William Thomas Harrison born? I know it was abt. 1883 and his father was Alfred Harrison, but with such a common name I can't get a definite fix on the 1891 or 1901 censuses.

    Any advice? Anyone? Please!

    Thanks
    Kevin
    Last edited by Kevin Harrison; 26-08-08, 01:18.

  • #2
    Hi Kevin, and welcome to FTF.

    What occupation is given for Alfred on William's marriage cert? Do you know what William's peacetime occupation was?

    Had you thought of employing a military researcher to look for William's records at Kew? Kevin Asplin charges very reasonable rates, and if I remember rightly, he doesn't charge if he can't find anything.

    Asplin Military History Resources

    Comment


    • #3
      Who were the marriage witnesses?

      Comment


      • #4
        These will be the births of the three children; Gladys's middle name was presumably Lilah.

        Births Dec 1915
        HARRISON Cecil W / TURNER / Bristol / 6a 342
        Births Sep 1917
        Harrison Dennis G / Turner / Bristol / 6a 277
        Births Sep 1920
        HARRISON Gladys L / Turner / Bristol / 6a 454

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        • #5
          This is Elsie's death:

          Deaths Dec 1921
          Harrison Elsie L / 26 / Chipping S. / 6a 260

          This must have been the child:

          Births Dec 1921
          Harrison Stanley N / Turner / Chipping S. / 6a 421

          but I can't find a death for him.

          Are you sure only three children were taken to the orphanage?
          Last edited by Mary from Italy; 26-08-08, 02:44.

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          • #6
            Hang about. It looks as though Gladys L Harrison died:

            Deaths Mar 1922

            HARRISON Gladys L / 1 / Bristol / 6a 340

            So maybe the three who went to the orphanage were Cecil, Dennis and Stanley? Where did your information about the orphanage come from?
            Last edited by Mary from Italy; 26-08-08, 03:04.

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            • #7
              I see that William's middle name wasn't given when he got married:

              Marriages Sep 1915
              Harrison William / Turner / Bristol / 6a 81
              Turner Elsie L / Harrison / Bristol / 6a 81

              Where did you get it from? One of the children's birth certificates?

              The only likely candidate I've found for William so far, but it's an extremely long shot, is a William HA Harrison born in Bristol c. 1880. His father's named as Albert in 1901 but Alfred in the previous two censuses. It looks as though this William was christened Henry Albert but added the name William later.
              Last edited by Mary from Italy; 26-08-08, 03:04.

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              • #8
                Does William's marriage certificate state his father's occupation?
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                Comment


                • #9
                  Blimey! I only posted this at midnight last night and already got a 7 replies. Thanks for your efforts thus far.

                  William's marrigage ceritificate shows him being married to Elsie Louisa Turner, 7/9/1915 at The Parish Church, Bishopston, Bristol. William's is aged 32, profession Army, residence Longmoor Army Camp, Hants. Father shown as Alfred Harrison, a labourer.

                  Elsie is shown aged 21, residing at 23 Muller Avenue (near the Muller orphanage), daughter of James Turner, a police constable.

                  The witnesses are R.T.Cross and Alice Cross.

                  William is shown as husband and informant on Elisie's death certificate, 1/11/1921 as William Thomas Harrison, occupation a Coachman.

                  On his son Cecil's marriage certificate in 1937, William is shown (with no middle name given) as deceased, occupation Groom (domestic).

                  On his son Dennis's birth certificate, 1917, Wiliam is shown (with no middle name given) as Private 15th Hussars no. 1637 (this is shown elsewhere as 16337). The Hussars were a mounted regiment. The residence of the informant (Elsie) was 76 Ashley Down Road, Bristol.

                  On Dennis' marriage certificate, 1942, William is shown as William Arthur Harrison, a stableman. This is the only reference to the middle name Arthur.

                  His medal card, which matches both the regiment, rank and number, shows him as William T Harrison.


                  I'd not seen the Gladys L Harrison in the BMD index, thank you. The middle initial could be Lilah or it could be Louisa after her mother's middle name.

                  The information on the 3 children who entered the New Orphan Houses, Ashley Down, Bristol, comes from an initial confirmation email from the Muller Foundation. They confirm "that Cecil and Dennis together with their
                  sisterLilah were admitted into the Homes on 12 December 1921." This is the only reference I've got to Lilah. My theory was that it was Lilah's birth that Elsie died at, and Lilah went to the orphanage and was seperated from the boys and possibly adopted under a different name. Clutching at straws though and it now looks possible she died giving birth to a Stanley N Harrison. The orphanage records should clear that up when they arrive.

                  Please keep firing your ideas at me. I'm at that stage where it's useful to challenge all assumptions.

                  Kevin

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                  • #10
                    One of the assumptions that needs challenging is that William comes from Bristol. Although I've got him (and Elsie) at addresses around Ashley Down Road, there was a big army barracks near Ashley and he could have been posted there.

                    If the orphanage records don't produce, then a military researcher might be the next step.

                    Thanks
                    Kevin

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kevin Harrison View Post
                      One of the assumptions that needs challenging is that William comes from Bristol.
                      Yes, unfortunately this is your main problem - the fact that he could have been born absolutely anywhere. I started looking at Bristol in case there was an obvious candidate, but the only one in the whole of Gloucestershire was that William HA, who is very tenuous.

                      You might do well to get Gladys's birth and death certs and Stanley's birth cert, at least to confirm whether they belong to the family and see what name and occupation William gave.

                      Gladys L died not more than 3 months after Elsie (death registered in the March quarter of 1922), almost certainly after the 3 children were admitted to the orphanage, so I would think the chances are that she was Lilah. If the orphanage records don't mention Stanley N Harrison, ask them to do a specific search under that name.

                      I would doubt whether the orphanage records will help as to William's birthplace, but you never know.

                      Apart from that, military records are probably going to be your best bet, if they've survived.

                      I don't suppose any of William's children emigrated to Australia? If so, their marriage and death certs should contain the parents' birthplaces.
                      Last edited by Mary from Italy; 26-08-08, 14:02.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kevin Harrison View Post
                        Father shown as Alfred Harrison, a labourer.
                        What a pity - he might have had the decency to have an unusual occupation

                        Anyway, I think that rules out William HA Harrison, whose father was first a draper, then a publican.

                        I'll have another look at the censuses now we have his occupation and the witnesses' names (in case they're related).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If Gladys were born and Elsie died with the same home address, it might be worth paying a lot of money for the census information for that address. This information will not be in the public domain for a good many years and may be the only way to pin the father down. It's certainly the only occasion he will appear with his family, giving a birthplace.

                          By the way, he may not have died, just lost touch with his children. It sounds as if his job would have involved travelling and he may have gone all over the place, possibly switching to cars as demands for grooms became less.
                          Phoenix - with charred feathers
                          Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                            If Gladys were born and Elsie died with the same home address, it might be worth paying a lot of money for the census information for that address.
                            Do you mean the 1921 census? Is that available on payment? I thought it was only the 1911.

                            Will I now be able to make FOI requests to see information held on the 1921 census?
                            The 1921 census is not held by The National Archives and remains, like all post 1921 censuses in the custody of the Office for National Statistics
                            Government policy is that the 1921 and subsequent censuses should remain closed for 100 years. Unlike the 1911 census the 1921 census was conducted under the 1920 Census Act, which is still in force and which contains a statutory prohibition on disclosure. This means that if any FOI requests are received for the 1921 census, the exemption found in S44 of the FOI Act will be invoked to maintain census confidentiality


                            Search the archives | 1911 census

                            By the way, he may not have died, just lost touch with his children.
                            Yes, I forgot to mention that - he's presumably shown as deceased on Cecil's marriage cert, as Kevin said he died before 1937, but without a death cert you can't be absolutely sure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, sorry, the penny's dropped now. You mean paying to view the 1911 census details for the address where Elsie died in case William was living there. That's not a bad idea, actually, if Kevin doesn't mind forking out £45 - although being an army family, they may have moved around a bit.

                              However, the 1911 census is due to be released next year, so it'd be cheaper to wait.

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                              • #16
                                Thanks guys.

                                I emailed the Muller Foundation this morning asking them to keep their eye out for Gladys and Stanley when they pull the family file. They've replied saying that, although it will be some months until they can process the request, it was Gladys Lilah Harrison that was admitted, but there's no record of Stanley's admission into the Homes. So that's one mystery resolved, at least partially - thanks Mary!

                                If Stanley died with his mother during childbirth, would they have registered both the birth and the death?

                                The 1911 census lookup, although a welcome idea, I suspect will not resolve anything. My reasoning being that Cecil's birth certificate in 1915 shows him born at 4 Tennyson Road, Bristol (which is also shown as the address of Elsie as the informant). Then on Dennis's 1917 birth certificate shows him born at 76 Ashley Down Road, Bristol, again with Elsie as the informant at the same address. The 1915 marriage certificate show Elsie at Muller Avenue, Bristol, with William at Longmoor Army Camp. The three Bristol addresses are within stones throw of each other.

                                Moving forward a few years, Cecil re-appears in Cornwall in 1937 and Dennis was demobbed and then married in Stafford in 1942. They certainly seem to be a mobile family.

                                Kevin
                                Last edited by Kevin Harrison; 26-08-08, 17:33.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Kevin


                                  Have you checked the GEDCOM to see if any of the names/dates fit in with your research.

                                  I am researching Harrison (on my OH side) but they are from London/Middlesex area.
                                  www.chrisatstjohns.tribalpages.com
                                  http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/User:ChrissyConfused-91

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                                  • #18
                                    I did a quick gedcom search but will try again armed with this added information.

                                    I'll mention a stray that I came across recently in case it links to your Middlesex Harrisons: 1901 census for the New Orphan House, Bristol - Louisa Harrison, aged 14, Inmate, born Haggerston Middlesex.


                                    Kevin

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                                    • #19
                                      Thanks Kevin, will check it out
                                      www.chrisatstjohns.tribalpages.com
                                      http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/User:ChrissyConfused-91

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I would certainly advise you to get in touch with Kevin Asplin.

                                        I thought my Great Great Grandfather was born in Ireland as he married and lived there once he left the Royal Marines. However Kevin found his records for me and they gave me his date of birth and his place of birth, Shrewsbury, in Shropshire. I think it cost me £25 and I got all the records he could find.

                                        Will certainly give you a starting point if they give you his place of birth.
                                        Wendy



                                        PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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