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Irish GRO modernisation programme

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  • Irish GRO modernisation programme

    I just noticed info about this on the Irish GRO site:
    The General Register Office - GRO Project

    I haven't read all the info yet, but I noticed this on the page about how to order certificates:

    New Security Certificates
    Issue of new security certificates under Modernisation of General Registration Office ( GRO ) Programme
    1. Introduction
    The above-mentioned modernisation programme includes the electronic registration of life events i.e. births, deaths and marriages and the production of life event certificates in a new format.
    2. New Style Certificates
    Phase 1 of the programme commenced on 1 July 2003. From that date two new styles of life event certificates are being produced for certain years i.e. Births from 1864 (all births records), Marriages from 1920 and Deaths from 1924:

    (a) the certificate in "landscape" style features a photographic image of the life event registration details copied from the relevant Register.

    (b) the certificate in "portrait" style has all the life event details printed on it in typed format.

    The certificate described at (a) above will be the more common one presented initially. Over time examples of certificates described at (b) above will appear.


    Does anybody know if this means that in the future (er, and the past few years?!) if you order a certificate from them, it will be a typed up one instead of a photocopy of the original? Sounds bad to me if that is what it means!
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

  • #2
    I have only been interested in Irish research for the past few months, after discovering some of OH's family went over there.

    I was rather shocked to discover that YOU HAVE TO PAY to search the registers for BMDs. (I'm sure this is old news to others!)

    "There is a daily search fee of € 20.00 euro, this entitles you to search any of our Birth, Marriage or Death index books or for € 2.00 euro you can do a 5 year search of a given index."

    I take it that there are no on-line sites such as FreeBMD or FindMyPast where you can search from home?
    Elizabeth
    Research Interests:
    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

    Comment


    • #3
      Elizabeth, according to Family Search Indexing, the transcription of the Irish BMD indexes has been completed. See:FamilySearch Indexing: Completed Projects

      Also, FamilySearch.org - Indexing says:
      "The key life events of billions of people are being preserved and shared through the efforts of people like you. Using our online indexing system, volunteers from around the world are able to quickly and easily transcribe the records—all from the convenience of their homes. The indexes are then posted for FREE at familysearch.org."

      So the Irish BMDs should be made available too (I think on the FamilySearch Labs site), although it doesn't specify when.
      Sarah

      Comment


      • #4
        The BMD from GRO Dublin has always had to be paid for to be searched. Having done Irish research for many years and spent much time in the old GRO in Dublin, it always struck me how antiquated it was by UK methods! In the old days, that is up until just over a year ago, you would decide which books you wanted from over the counter, and then would pay for those books or else pay a daily fee of about £16 and have as many books as you wanted. This usually meant that several people would pay the daily fee and then monopolise half the books for that day!! This often meant books you wanted to search were "occupied"!!! How often that happened to me!

        Still, this is what happens in Edinburgh where you pay a daily fee and now the FRC has gone this is what could happen in the UK, except that we do still have copies of the GRO on microfilm, available to view free in all the major libraries in the UK. Otherwise you have to pay to access GRO on both Ancestry and Findmypast. Kew is not accessible to everybody to search. FRC was so accessible to me and most people living within a 50 mile radius of London, but living North London. getting to Kew is a pain!

        However, when GRO Dublin moved premises just over a year ago I thought that would change but I have not been to Dublin since the changeover so do not know what goes on there at present.

        You could always get two sorts of Certs from Irish GRO. One is the shortened version, cost about £2/3.50 which often you could not read very well, or the longer version which cost about £10 and which I think you had to go through the administarive town for each county, at least if you wanted the longer version from Tipperary County you had to apply to Nenagh for this, so assume each county had its own version unless since Roscommon digitisation you applied for the long version through Roscommon. Most people, including myself, usually opted for the short cheap version, which you got the same day as a copy from original document and would then lead on to other docs. I never knew why they were always so illegible but the information was there so as long as you could read it then that was OK. There was one I had which I could not read at all but they recopied and sent to me in the UK at no further charge. It maybe that they wish to phase out this cheap option!!

        You may find the GRO in Ireland is accessible at a few major libraries in Ireland for free on microfilm. I have been able to access this through the main Cork Library out of town, though that may just have been BMD Cork as Cork is one of my main interest counties.

        I have not found a complete Irish BMD outside of Ireland, though no doubt some people put some records online, but reckon these are very incomplete.

        Janet
        Last edited by Janet; 24-08-08, 12:03.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hyde Park has a (LDS) huge amount of Irish BMD Indexes on Film and for some years have the transcriptions on film too. ;)

          Comment


          • #6
            GRO Ireland have had their records digitised for ages - but only accessible to themselves, that's why it's was so quick to get a photocopy of an entry at Lombard House

            And their digitisation isn't from the indexes it's done from the originals. I scoured and scoured the indexes for a possible birth for my great great grandfather. A particularly unusual surname for Ireland. I copied every single occurrence of the surname in the indexes and their wasn't anything that looked likely to be him. At the end of my thether I asked the man at Lombard House what else I could do to find him, he disappeared behind a little screen with his name on a bit of paper and reappeared minutes later with his a photocopy of his birth certificate.
            Zoe in London

            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

            Comment


            • #7
              I thought that the index was on the LDS, I am relieved that it isn't complete on there as I had been unable to find my great grandfather's birth & thought I might not be able to get a cert, this gives me new hope.
              Lynn

              Comment


              • #8
                The Irish GRO index is as fallible as the English one in that you're going to get some events that just don't make it onto the register.

                My grandmother was one of 14 children. I have photos of them all together (except the one who died as an infant) and I've spoken to the last living of the siblings and there was definitely 14 of them as she could tell me who slept in which place in their bedroom (and who got promoted to a better spot as they married off).

                But, there is one of the girls that simply doesn't appear in the indexes. Her birth never made it on there.
                Zoe in London

                Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                Comment


                • #9
                  Peppie

                  You are quite right about the LDS in Kensington. I had momentarily forgotten about that one.

                  Incidentally, Roscommon has only been up and running with digitised index since April 2005 so not that long ago. Prior to that it was all done at either Dublin Joyce House Lombard Street, or Belfast. I notice it is now very difficult to access the Dublin GRO online, so that may be indicative of running the old system down, although Dublin was very anti giving all the info to Roscommon when it first came into being back in 2005. When keying in the info for Dublin GRO the Roscommon site comes up with all the history.

                  I was also informed by the Cork Genealogical Society December 2007 that the Research Rooms had moved:

                  "I would like to advise members that the research room at the General Registers Office in Lombard Street, Dublin has been transferred.

                  The new location is on the
                  3rd Floor
                  Block 7
                  Irish Life Building
                  Lower Abbey Street,
                  Dublin

                  I have not been to Ireland since this move.

                  One of the main reasons that the GRO in Ireland is very often incomplete in particular in its Birth and Death records from 1864, is that the nearest registration point for registering a birth was very often many miles away from where people lived, and in the cold and wet, it was not very high on a mother's list to register the birth, with having to walk many miles with several children in tow. It was, however, high on her list of priorities to have that child baptised, and usually within a few days of birth so......!! Look for the baptism! Predominant religion in Ireland has always been Catholic(about 85%)so you look mainly for Catholic Baptisms.

                  Similarly deaths were not always registered, particularly when burials often occurred in a ditch or anywhere but in burial grounds. I have been shown burials in the most oddest of places in Ireland.

                  Marriages were usually recorded because that was done in church and received the church's blessing so was very important.

                  Janet
                  Last edited by Janet; 25-08-08, 15:25.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The birth I am interested in is of the son of a British solider in Waterford, which doesn't appear in the army index, so was hoping that he would appear in the Irish index.
                    Lynn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have four side-line births and at least one - probably three - side-line deaths in the 1860s in Cork. I'd quite like to get copy docs - but my main project is an ancestral chart, so they aren't a high priority.

                      They're children of a naval family. They show up on the IGI for Cork (in fact , just spotted the fourth, this afternoon). Should I be going for the short versions, just to make sure I get the info they might contain before the option disappears?

                      Christine
                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lynne

                        If you cannot find the birth in the Overseas Index on Findmypast or in the Familysearch indexes then the only way out is to write to the church in Waterford to ask for a baptismal cert, but be warned the parish priests do not always take kindly to genealogical enquiries so you may never get a reply. It is a pity that you are unable to find it on the Overseas Index, as the birth certs are taken from the Regimental Indexes and usually includes baptismal details. I have to say that most of this sort of work I have done in Ireland and have never had any problems getting baptismal details from the priests on a casual visit, and I accessed all my Regimental baps and marriages at the FRC before the Indexes were mothballed. I am annoyed that these Regimental Indexes are no longer accessible, as finding relevant ones on Findmypast is not esay to find.

                        Christine,

                        If you can get the short versions I would say get them but with not being able to access the Dublin GRO online, I am not sure how you will now be able to get the short versions, without actually going to Dublin or Cork. I have to say that I am pleased I have most of mine, though with the 1911 Census shortly coming online I will need to purchase about 8 certs as soon as I know where each is born, but that looks as though I may now have to pay for full certs, so I will not be a very happy bunny if that is the case!

                        Wonder if this is being done deliberately ahead of the 1901 and 1911 Census! Once people are able to access these census, there will be an avalanche of applications for certs to the Irish GRO so the long certs will give them more money than the short ones!!!

                        As far as I know, you can only get long certs from Roscommon, though I have never purchased from Roscommon, but it all may be falling into line with UK certs?

                        Janet
                        Last edited by Janet; 25-08-08, 18:06.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is possible that I may have missed it in the regimental index, perhaps it was mis spelt, but I wouldn't expect him to have been baptised in a Catholic church, as I believe that they were C of E
                          Lynn

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks, Janet, for the info.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lynn,

                              I am sorry I should not have assumed RC by talking in terms of a Parish Priest, just because most Irish were RC! Instead of Parish Priest, look at a Church of Ireland Churches in Waterford and write to them. That should be easier to find, as there will not be so many of them, but I think the same warning will apply as they may be disinclined to answer Genealogy questions, they get so many, but still worth a try. Do you mean Waterford town or the County of Waterford? My own English soldier married at Fermoy Established C of Ireland church and his first child was baptised at the Fermoy church as well and that even though the wife was RC! I did find mine though through the Regimental Registers and sent for the certs in the normal way.

                              If you have the Attestation papers, it may be apparent where the children are born, as all children's births are recorded on my soldiers' papers. I even found a marriage and birth of two children, one in Ireland on the attestation papers of one of my soldiers from the First W War.

                              Janet
                              Last edited by Janet; 25-08-08, 21:20.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Lynn The Forest Fan View Post
                                I thought that the index was on the LDS, I am relieved that it isn't complete on there as I had been unable to find my great grandfather's birth & thought I might not be able to get a cert, this gives me new hope.
                                The Irish records in the IGI at FamilySearch are far from complete. But according to the FamilySearch Indexing page I mentioned in my previous post, the Irish BMD indexes have now been transcribed and will be made available through FamilySearch. It doesn't say when these BMD indexes will be added though, and I expect when they are added they will appear at FamilySearch Record Search rather than the IGI.
                                Sarah

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Thats ok Janet, I would assume that if you were born in Ireland, you would probably have been RC as well. Sadly, I don't have his father's attestation papers, as very little remains of his record. His father transferred from the army to the Ayr Yeomanry & his records don't appear to have been kept. According to his brother's school records, the family were C of E. I've no idea whether he was born in Waterford town or county, it just say Waterford on the census & that is where his father's regiment was based at the time. Hopefully when the complete index comes on line, I will finf his birth listed in Ireland
                                  Last edited by Lynn The Forest Fan; 26-08-08, 07:17.
                                  Lynn

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Cloggie

                                    Thanks for that. Will keep my eyes open!

                                    Lynn

                                    Oh dear, you will need all the luck you can get!

                                    Janet

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