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  • Helps with Orrell family

    Hi. I'm new here so please be gentle with me! I have John Orrell 1850-1883 married 1875 to Betty Cowell 1856-####. I am trying to find John's father being Thomas Orrell (occ Shoemaker) am having probs trying to find his birth,marriage or death? I have marriage cert for John and Betty.
    Can anyone help with this, any info would be most welcome.
    Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

  • #2
    Hi there and welcome - we are a friendly crowd.

    Ok, these people, what area were they married in?

    Found them:

    Marriages Dec 1875
    BRINDLE Richard Bolton 8c 367
    COWELL Betty Bolton 8c 367
    ORRELL John Bolton 8c 367
    SKINNER Mary Jane Bolton 8c 367

    In 1881 they are living in Walkden Lancs, 2 doors down from Thomas Cowell and family (Betty's bro?)
    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 23-08-08, 21:57.

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the Forum.

      I deduce (from the marriage - the name combination in that year is unique in FreeBMD) that we're talking about Bolton, Lancs?

      There are quite a lot of online resources for Lancs. Have you had a look in our Wiki, to see if there's anything there which might be useful?

      Christine
      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi. Sorry for lack of info. John and Betty married Bolton. Lancashire. John came from Farnworth and Betty from Little Bolton. according to the m cert.
        Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

        Comment


        • #5
          Lancs BMD site Lancashire Births Marriages & Deaths tells you that they were married in St John's Church, Bolton.

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Christine. I have looked at numerous sites (freeBMD. various census records, etc) But keep coming to a dead end. So I joined this forum and decided to try again with this line.
            (New member, new Forum.) Might have better luck this time.
            Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, are you sure of that name for his father as: here is a John born Bolton c1849 living Clitheroe in 1871 with a father called Robert who is a ....shoemaker

              1871
              Name Age
              Susannah Bury 8
              Ann Orrell 18
              Elizabeth Orrell 58
              John Orrell 22
              Robert Orrell 62
              John W Robinson 8
              Mary A Robinson 26

              Do you actually have Johns birth cert?
              Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 23-08-08, 22:04.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes Thomas is the name on the m cert. One of the witnesses was Ann Orrell.
                Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

                Comment


                • #9
                  And one of the sisters on that 1871 is Ann Orrell.

                  What is the name given for Bettys father? What Im saying is, mistakes ARE made on certs. I see her likely bro is Thomas, is that the same as dad?
                  I have a witnesses first name mistakenly given as the grooms on one of mine!
                  Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 23-08-08, 22:11.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lancashire OPC (Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerk Project -) may be able to help. They have a good reputation. Certainly, my experience of them is of helpfulness.

                    Christine
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is this Bettys lot in Blackburn in 1861? Dad is a beer seller and spinner?

                      Betty Cowell 6
                      John Cowell 12
                      Joseph Cowell 35
                      Joseph Cowell 10 Mo
                      Rachael Cowell 32
                      Thomas Cowell 10
                      Ann Murry 25
                      Sarah Ryan 20

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Betty's father on the cert Joseph Cowell and the other witness John Cowell.

                        I think I have been down this road before with Robert as father who married Elizabeth Rainford at St Nics Liverpool c1834. But am not convinced it is the right person ??

                        Thomas seems to disappear. may be error on m cert . I do not know. (Totally confused)
                        Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When you say Thomas disappears, have you actually seen him then?

                          I think you need to buy the birth cert for John.

                          The only John born Bolton area near your blokes age coming up with a dad Thomas in 1851 is this one and his father is a farmer.

                          Leah Entwisle 7
                          George Orrell 1
                          Jane Orrell 19
                          John Orrell 3
                          Richard Orrell 49
                          Sarah Orrell 32
                          Thomas Orrell 45


                          You have to eliminate all the impossibles and then look at the improbables - at the moment you have a boy born the right year, in the right place with a father in the right occupation but with the wrong first name - and who, in the 1851 was living near wife to be Betty in Little Bolton. It seems a very reasonable chance to me that this is the right bloke. Get the birth cert.

                          Elizabeth Orrell 7 Mo
                          Elizbeth Orrell 39
                          John Orrell 2
                          Margaret Orrell 8
                          Mary Ann Orrell 7
                          Robert Orrell 42
                          Sarah Orrell 12
                          Susanna Orrell 10
                          William Orrell 5
                          Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 23-08-08, 22:27.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes I have Betty's lot Blackburn no prob.
                            Just the Orrell's causing confusion.
                            Sorry but must leave it tonight will look a any new replies tomorrow. Thank you both for your assistance.
                            Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The only b cert for John I can find is with Robert (occ cordwainer) as father.
                              Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well, Robert is the father in those census and a cordwainer is a bootmaker.

                                What is Johns occupation on the marriage cert? From the age of 13 the boy with dad Robert is working as a cotton mill operative.
                                Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 23-08-08, 22:39.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There is a John Orrell with mother Elizabeth (Mar) father not at home. Also sister Ann

                                  RG9; Piece: 2821; Folio: 71; Page: 33

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    John's occupation on the m cert. is "minder" I think one can assume in the cotton mills!
                                    I think that I will have to get b cert. for John b1851 to see if this helps. Also I must take a look at this census RG9: 2821 :folio71: page 33 noted by Jammy Dodger.
                                    I do hope that I am going to be able to progress further with this.
                                    And Thank you all for your input into this subject.
                                    Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Jammy/Rivington, thats the same boy I have been talking about in Little Bolton - in the 1861 dad is not there. (Mary Berry is a grandaughter) I thought that may mean dad Robert had died (and I thought may be a Thomas had replaced him)but he reappears with them next census, so obviously just away somewhere that night.
                                      1861
                                      Mary Berry 3
                                      Ann Orrell 8
                                      Elizabeth Orrell 48
                                      Elizabeth Orrell 12
                                      John Orrell 13
                                      William Orrell 16
                                      Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 24-08-08, 12:38.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Just a thought my Thomas(Robert). Robert married Elizabeth Rainford at St Nic,s Liverpool 1834. Now St Nics is RC. Does one have to take second name or Saints name being married in RC church therefore Robert could become Robert Thomas. Would this be reasonable or am I talking a load of rubbish !!!
                                        Robert was born 1808 and Christened 19.June 1808 at Chipping and Leagram RC Chipping Lancashire. parents being Joanis(Joseph) Orrell and Sarae Snape.

                                        The main prob is that nobody in the Orrell family has any recollection of RC in the family.
                                        Am I just tying myself in knots or am I getting their??
                                        Researching: ORRELL, HIGGINSON, LEIGH, PEET, LLOYD,GREEN. all Lancashire. PEPIN. USA. LLOYD, Canada. PEET, Victoria Australia

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