I am completly stuck, can anyone offer a new pair of eyes?!

[emmalouise76]

Hello, i am totally stuck with my great gran and its driving me insane. Can anyone here offer me any ideas?

Here is what i have: Winifred kathleen wynn was my great gran, i have her wedding cert, she wed Albert alfred charman on the 3rd of may 1926 in Lambeth. She was 31 years old which would make her birth sometime 1895?! It says on the wedding cert her father was william wynn deceased and it says he was an actor. ( i cant find him, i have photos of winifred on stage as a dancer but cant find any info on that) Winifred and albert had a daughter (my gran) Vivienne rita charman, she was born before they wed and registered the day after they wed! I know winifred died in 1961 in lambeth, i really cant find her birth entry and therefor cant go back any further. I would love to find out who her parents were and if she had any siblings.

I undertook this project as a promise to my nan who sadly passed away, i now wish i hadnt started!!! Grrrrrr!

Thanks

[Jessbowbag]

having got a charman line myself - charman from Charlwood, surrey - I can tell you there is a GOON with a Charman name study - he knows the ins and outs of every Charman that ever breathed.

any idea where she was born?
Winifred Wynn sounds suspiciously welsh to me.

[emmalouise76]

Hi, if thats the guy i think it is then he has contacted me already and was a great help with my charmans but he too was a bit stumped on winifred wynn! I am starting to wonder if she really existed!! lol If i cant find her birth maybe its because she was born under a different name, that makes it even worse!! I thought it sounded welsh too but i cant find her!! :(

[Mary from Italy]

I've just checked the official 1901 site, and there's no William Wynn listed with the occupation of actor.

Can't see Winifred on the 1901 census (at least, not with a father William).

[emmalouise76]

Hmmm the plot thickens! Thankyou for looking for me! I dont know what to do............ i need to be famous so i can appear on "who do you think you are" Then they can sort it for me!!

[Mary from Italy]

Do you know if she had any brothers or sisters?

Was she described as a spinster on her marriage cert?

[Jessbowbag]

so, we need a dramatic William Wynn, marrying someone, then matching the name of a winifred Kathleen with the bride

Realistically, who would call their daughter Winnie Wynne?

[emmalouise76]

I dont know if she had any siblings. My gran had very little info on her own mum, apparently she was an odd character and my gran suspected she herself had a sister but was told to stop asking questions!!!

And you are right i thought winnie wynn was a bit odd! could she have lied about who her father was??

She was a spinster on her wedding cert.

Also was it normal to have a baby out of wedlock in those days? My gran was born 27 march and they wed 3rd may?!

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, it was very common to have children out of wedlock.

It's quite possible that Winifred herself was born before her parents married, and registered in her mother's maiden name.

[Jessbowbag]

Its a bit of a * wotsit* not really knowing where she came from

[Mary from Italy]

Just checked the 1901 Welsh census - there isn't a single Winifred Wynn listed.

Another possibility is that she gave the correct name for her father but the wrong occupation, perhaps because she was an actress and her father had a humble occupation that would be embarrassing for her.

One of my relatives put her father down as a deceased ship's captain, when he was a butcher, and alive and kicking.

[emmalouise76]

I think you may be right, its gonna take some detective work, i have had no real problems with all my other sides of the family but this one is a nightmare!!

Its more than a wotsit!!! lol

[Mary from Italy]

Back to the 1901 English census.

The only possible candidates are these:

- Winnie Wynn, parents William and Ann, born about 1878 in Dawley, Shropshire and living in Blackburn, Lancashire
- Winnifred E Wynn, daughter of William G and Jane A, born about 1888 in Chesterfield, Derbyshire, and living in Heanor, Derbyshire.

The places are nowhere near where she got married, though, and the ages are miles out.

[emmalouise76]

Oh my goodness!! Why do our relatives do this to us??!!

I am going to write everything down and label everything so my great grandchildren dont have to do this!! lol

[emmalouise76]

Mary thankyou so much for looking for me, do you think she could have lied about her age? I have her death cert that goes along with the age she claimed to be, was it possible to lie about it do you think??

[Pippa Doll]

Hello!

samesized feet has got actor ancestors and they seemed to change their names so I wonder if there is a puzzle to unravel!

[Mary from Italy]

The other possibilities are:

- Winifred Wynn b. 1893, Highgate, London and living in Plumstead, London, parents John and Emma
- Winifred Wynn b. 1896 Barnsbury?, Essex and living in Wood Green, Middlesex, parents Thomas Henry and Eliza

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, it was possible to lie about everything if you were bold enough.

Whoever registered her death would only have known the age she SAID she was. You didn't have to produce any documentation to register a death.

I have an actor ancestor too, who completely reinvented himself and his past.

OC

[Mary from Italy]

Lots of people lied about their age - because they were too young to get married, or much older than the other spouse, for example. I've searched for births in 1895 +/- 10 years, but I'm still not finding an obvious candidate.

And bear in mind that the age on the death cert is only as accurate as the informer's knowledge.

I'm afraid she probably went under a different surname before she was married.

[Mary from Italy]

There's a possible here that might be worth investigating:

Winefred Wynne born c. 1891 at Childer Thornton, Cheshire, and living there with grandparents Samuel and Margaret Hughes in 1901.