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John Leishman - who is he? (Scotland)

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  • John Leishman - who is he? (Scotland)

    This is what I know about John Leishman (1856 - 1947). I'll work backwards, starting with his mother's death registration which is where the mystery begins.

    1909: Marjory McEwan widow of William McEwan dies aged 83 at the family home in Jamestown, Dunbartonshire.
    Parents: Robert Douglas (dec.), Marjory Douglas (maiden name Inglis) (dec.)
    Informant: John Leishman (son)

    John Leishman married at the same address in 1890 and he's there in 1891 and 1901.

    In 1881, John Leishman (25) and his mother Marjory McEwen (54) (born Galston Ayrshire) are at St. Ninians, Stirling (Ancestry transcription)

    In 1871, William McEwen (35), Marjorie McEwen (44) and John Leishman (15), Son (Step- inserted) are at St. Ninians, Stirling (ScotlandsPeople image).

    In 1868 William McEwen (45, widower) married Marjorie Douglas (40, spinster) at St Ninians, Stirling. Marjory's parents (both deceased) are the same as on her death certificate. Both made their mark.

    In 1861, Marjory Douglas (Head, unmarried, aged 34) is at St Ninians with her sister Elizabeeth (24) and her son John Leishman aged 5. (SP image)

    In 1851, Marjorie Douglas (Head aged 24) is with her sisters Jean, Janet and Elizabeth (Ancestry transcription).

    And in 1841 she is with her parents and siblings, still in the same location (SP image).

    Looking for John Leishman's birth around 1856, there are no births between 1855 and 1860 with the correct mother. The correct birth in 1856 is for James Inglis Douglas, illegitimate son of Marjory Douglas (who made her mark).
    No father is named.

    So somehow, James Inglis Douglas became John Leishman.

    Not a pressing problem for me, but if anyone can find a likely father I'd be very grateful.
    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

  • #2
    I kept coming across "your" John Leishman when searching for mine Uncle John. I take it yours is the John Setiawan, a Girnertew of Tweeds in Ancestry's 1871?

    Mine was born illegitimately to Mary Burnet in Larbert in 1853.
    The OPR states his parents were John Leishman and Mary Burnet. No occupation given for the father. Residence Kinnaird.
    John (1853), a widower, married in 1879 in Larbert. His father was said to be a gardener.

    You're welcome to the image, for ruling-out purposes, if you don't have a marriage for your John yet.
    Gillian
    User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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    • #3
      What country did your John Leishman die in, Uncle John? If he died in Scotland, then his death certificate "should" tell you his father's name.
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Just Gillian View Post
        I kept coming across "your" John Leishman when searching for mine Uncle John. I take it yours is the John Setiawan, a Girnertew of Tweeds in Ancestry's 1871?.
        I seem to remember that "interpretation". To be fair the image on SP isn't wonderful. He was actually a "giver-in of tweeds", whatever that is. His stepfather is a mill worker.

        Originally posted by Just Gillian View Post
        You're welcome to the image, for ruling-out purposes, if you don't have a marriage for your John yet.
        I'm entirely happy that I have the right person. I have everything except his death register entry (thanks Kite for reminding me, though I don't suppose it will shed much light). I know he died in 1947 in Alexandria. His family is a slight sideline so I only go for the registers when I have a few spare credits (not today).
        Last edited by Uncle John; 15-08-08, 14:01.
        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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        • #5
          I was amazed how many Leishmans there were in Stirling. I'd never encountered the name until finding John, above, and assumed initially that it must be of Germanic origin.

          The St Ninians Kirk Sessions might have details of John Douglas/Leishman's paternity. I don't know if the FHS would have copies of those. Stirling Archives does, but I think their prices for research start at £20.00 - a bit much for a sideline.
          Gillian
          User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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          • #6
            I've just had another look at IGI Batch C114881. Unfortunately it's a transcription of the birth register index so it doesn't shed any fresh light. There were 3 other unmarried Douglas births in the batch, including another to a Marjory Douglas in 1864. I can't match that one up with the 1871 census, so he either died or wasn't related.

            I have no idea whether or where James Inglis Douglas/John Leishman was baptised.

            Talking of places and surnames, in the same bit of OH's tree I had to search through a forest of Sturrocks in Dundee. They were also married-in to her great-grandmother's family.
            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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            • #7
              IGI Batch C114884 is St Ninians baptisms but I can't find anything in the correct timeframe.
              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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              • #8
                I looked for him in the St Ninian's baptisms too yesterday Uncle John. I'd say, the likelihood is that Leishman is the name of his father but can't think of a way of establishing it, unless maybe Marjory claimed parish relief at some time?

                Did John not marry and have you the cert?

                Did you look for a death for the other birth to a Marjory Douglas?

                Do you know where the Inglis fits in?
                Gillian
                User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Just Gillian View Post
                  I looked for him in the St Ninian's baptisms too yesterday Uncle John. I'd say, the likelihood is that Leishman is the name of his father but can't think of a way of establishing it, unless maybe Marjory claimed parish relief at some time?

                  Did John not marry and have you the cert?

                  Looking at that again has opened a whole new can of worms!
                  Father: John Leishman, general labourer (dec.)
                  Mother: Marjory Leishman m/s Douglas
                  One of the witnesses is a John Douglas

                  I think mummy was telling porkies about her surname.


                  Did you look for a death for the other birth to a Marjory Douglas?

                  No but I will now. Robert Douglas b. 10 April 1864


                  Do you know where the Inglis fits in?
                  Marjory's mother's maiden name
                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                  • #10
                    There are 15 John Leishmans in total in Stirling for 1851 and 23 for 1861. (Mind you, Leishman is probably a common victim of mistranscription - witness John Setiawan). Narrowing that down to the ones of a likely age still leaves quite a few possibles. With gen. labourer as an occupation, I don't see how you could pin him down without something such as poor relief records, even if you narrowed it down to the ones deceased by John jr.'s wedding date.

                    My John Leishman also fibbed at his 1879 marriage - father John Leishman, mother Mary Leishman, m.s. Burnet. They never married. Mary went on to have two more illegitimate children, by two more fathers.

                    I can understand the lies. Some of mine carry the word illegitimate not only on their birth and marriage certs but even right through to their death ones!
                    Gillian
                    User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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                    • #11
                      Right then, Robert Douglas.

                      Born 10 April 1864 St Ninians, Stirling to Marjory Douglas (IGI Batch C114881, which is copied from the GROS index)
                      Died 1867 St Ninians Stirling (the only match on SP in a likely timeframe). One for a rainy day when I have some spare credits.

                      The thing is, Marjory was Marjory McEwan (wid.) when John Leishman married in 1890. She never did have the name Leishman.

                      The other dramatis personae will remain a mystery unless I stumble across them by accident.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                      • #12
                        HI Uncle John


                        I had some spare credits that needed using up and have viewed the death entry for Robert Douglas as you found above

                        Name of deceased = Robert Douglas age 3

                        When and Where died = 16/5/1867 2hrs AM

                        now I can't make out the Where part but have attached it here



                        Parent = Marjory Douglas

                        Cause of Death = Burn from Boiling Water 4 weeks certified by the surgeon

                        Informant = Marjory Douglas X her mark
                        WendyP

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                        • #13
                          Wendy - how sad!

                          I think the "where" is probably Cambusbarron.
                          Gillian
                          User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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                          • #14
                            Thank you very much for that, Gillian. What a long and lingering death that must have been.

                            Cambusbarron is mentioned in censuses. I'm not sure whether Cambusbarron is part of St Ninians or the other way round.
                            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                              Thank you very much for that, Gillian.
                              Uncle John - it was Wendy who downloaded the image
                              Last edited by Just Gillian; 17-08-08, 10:16.
                              Gillian
                              User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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                              • #16
                                Very sorry Wendy, and thanks very much. I was about to go out and didn't have my reading glasses on or my brain in gear!
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                • #17
                                  HI

                                  No problem.

                                  I have also been able view John Leishman's death cert for the1947 one that you found


                                  Name = John Leishman
                                  Occupation = Retired Printfiled Worker
                                  When = 29/1/1947 @ 1.38am
                                  Where = 173 Main Street, Alexandria

                                  Son of = John Leishman (dec') and Marjory Leishman (dec' nee Douglas)
                                  Cause of Death = Senile Debility and Cardiac Failure

                                  Who registered = A named grandson which I wont name on here, but you can copntact if you need the name.
                                  WendyP

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                                  • #18
                                    Many thanks for this Wendy. I've sent you a PM.

                                    This "who is my mother?" is doing my head in!

                                    I will go and have a look for a Leishman/Douglas marriage, but I'll check my SP searches first cos I think I've been down that road before.
                                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                    • #19
                                      The plot thickens:

                                      I've now found John's half sister Annie McEwen/McEwan in 1881, a 14 year old lodger at 8 Milton Terrace, Bonhill with a Prentice family.

                                      That confirms for me that I found the right Marjory Douglas and the right marriage to William McEwen/McEwan.

                                      Can't see Annie in 1891 so perhaps she married. Not knowing husband's surname I can't use SP.

                                      AND just remembered, the others were still in Stirling in 1881.
                                      Last edited by Uncle John; 17-08-08, 15:32.
                                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Uncle John View Post
                                        Thank you very much for that, Gillian. What a long and lingering death that must have been.

                                        Cambusbarron is mentioned in censuses. I'm not sure whether Cambusbarron is part of St Ninians or the other way round.

                                        Cambusbarron in Stirling is a village in it's own right although I think it may, at one time, have come under the parish of St. Ninians but don't quote me.

                                        The village of Cambusbarron is approximately a 20min walk from St Ninians.

                                        OH is Stirling born and bred and went to School (Stirling High) with Leishmans and one of his closest friend's is a McEwan from St Ninians.
                                        St Ninian's was where OH 'hung out' it's basically now just a housing Scheme within Stirling.

                                        My own mothers best friend also lives in St Ninians.
                                        With Experience comes Realisation

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