HOLDEN question for OC!

[Richard in Perth]

Hi OC

I've been helping on a thread on GR (titled "Raising this ugly head again", on Tips) and in the course of the investigation have come across a William John Holden, born 1860 in Ramsbottom, Bury, Lancs. Is he by chance one of yours? It seems that this certain Mr Holden married an Ellen Mercer in Bury, 1890. It's a possibility that this Ellen Mercer may be the mother of said GR person's grandmother, so would be interested if you have any further details!

Cheers
Richard

[Olde Crone Holden]

Richard

I'll get back to you tomorrow on this as I have visitors tonight. I don't immediately recognise the names but that doesn't mean I don't have any info on them!

Please tell me he WASN'T a hairdresser....

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

OK, have had a look now.

I do have John William Holden, but as a floater in my database, just the census record. (Possibly put there by me, sparked by the previous thread on GR???)

A few observations:

I have found (Lancsbmd)
1884
Daniel Ingham born Burnley
Daniel Ingham born Middleton

Which of these two certs is the wrong one - the poster says he has one and it is wrong.

Also, an outsider

1874, Daniel L Ingham, Middleton.

The Daniel/David confusion is so common that I always routinely search for both of these names. If you write Daniel and David in curly script you will see that they are virtually indistinguishable.

I als routinely see Patrick/Peter confusions, although I think this is more to do with escaping Irish connections and is deliberate.

Edith Mercer - loads to choose from, but these caught my eye

Edith 1879, Ardwick
Edith 1890, Preston, mmn Preston.

Her'es an odd one though:

Frank Ingham 1921 BLACKPOOL, mmn MORRIS. Is the poster sure he has the right birth certificate for his Frank? this is the only Frank Ingham I can find on Lancsbmd.

Otherwise, I think your scenario is very plausible. Ages on marriage certs, particularly copies from the GRO, are notoriously unreliable.

Also, father's names, deceased or otherwise, aren't totally reliable on a marriage cert, especially if the person was illegitimate.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

OC

[Richard in Perth]

Hi OC

Thanks for the response. When the Holden name came up I immediately thought of you!!

The Daniel Ingham that I think is the right one was born in 1873 (i.e. his age is out by 10 years on the marriage cert - but quite possible as he was much older than his bride so probably shaved a decade off to make it look better!). Am reasonably confident in the Ingham side, though of course it's up to the member to buy the certs and verify it all. I must admit though I hadn't even looked for Frank Ingham's birth - I had assumed that the poster had at least got his own father right, though maybe I shouldn't have assumed that even from what you say!

I think the real problem for the member though (assuming that he has the right marriage for his grandparents) is finding his gmother Edith Mercer - nothing seems to fit (or other possibles have been discounted as they've been found in later years marrying other people). That's why I was drawn to the Ellen Mercer, living with step-father John William Holden in 1891. Just thought that if he was connected to your Holden lot (who are also Lancs based I recall?) then you might possibly know about his descendants. not to worry though!

Cheers
Richard

[Richard in Perth]

No, here is Frank's birth:

Births Jun 1921
Ingham Frank Mercer Oldham 8d 1178


The poster was quite sure they were from Oldham so it seems right. LancsBMD is far from complete as I'm sure you know!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, of course Lancsbmd is incomplete, but when I saw the one on there, it opened up the possibility that he COULD have the wrong birth cert for Frank! Presumably he has family knowledge to help him decide he has the right one.

However, I do think you are right with the Edith/Ellen Mercer scenario.

OC