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  • Death certificate query

    I just wondered what "no p.m 1 year" under cause of death means - I assume p.m means post mortem



    Thanks
    Joan died in July 2020.

  • #2
    I presume he or she had had the TB for one year, though I would have expected to see it written the other way round:

    Pulmonary TB 1 year - no p.m.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Merry - it's very sad because this was a 40 year old female who died in May 1918
      and whose child of under a year I think died in the 3rd Q of 1917 -
      Joan died in July 2020.

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      • #4
        I am not sure why it noted there was no post-mortem. I have zillions of TB death certs and none of them say that.
        ~ with love from Little Nell~
        Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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        • #5
          I thought that was odd, too, Nell!! But everything to do with HW Wicks is odd, to say the least (this is his first wife's death certificate)

          I wonder whether "p. m " could stand for something else? - maybe a medical term ?
          Last edited by Muggins in Sussex; 09-08-08, 11:13.
          Joan died in July 2020.

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          • #6
            No, I am 99% certain it means there was no post-mortem.

            "By 1875 the cause of death is followed by "Certified by..........(name of doctor) ..........(doctors qualifications)" in which case the doctor in attendance on the deceased in his last illness has signed a medical certificate of cause of death. This tends then to be in medical jargon eg myocardial infarction (a layman would have said heart attack) or cerebrovascular accident (stroke). A doctor is only qualified to sign if he has been in attendance on the deceased in his last illness AND has either seen the deceased within 14 days of his death or saw the deceased after death. If there is no doctor who qualifies under these restrictions then the death must be notified to the coroner."

            from http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certifi...eaths.htm#COL7

            so perhaps the doc in attendance hadn't seen the deceased within 14 days but was just showing his confidence in the cause of death.
            Last edited by Little Nell; 09-08-08, 11:21.
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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            • #7
              Thanks Nell - I think in the circumstances I am just being unduly suspicious!
              Joan died in July 2020.

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              • #8
                Hi,
                I have a death certificate with almost identical comments. TB - 12 month. I believe that no pm meant no post-mortem as the condition of the deceased was known and therefore it's natural conclusion - death.

                Paul

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                • #9
                  Thank you Paul -That makes sense
                  Joan died in July 2020.

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                  • #10
                    I think the doctor is just using a belt and braces approach here. He has diagnosed TB but is saying that he hasn't ordered a post mortem.

                    Perhaps he had his suspicions too? After all, suffering from TB doesn't make you exempt from someone helping you to the grave, does it!

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      Surely if he was suspicious he should have notified the coroner.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                      • #12
                        Nell

                        It might have been a nebulous suspicion though, based on nothing more than a "feeling" and he might not have wanted to compromise his medical standing just because he didn't like the man.

                        I would imagine that a Coroner, faced with the death of a woman who had TB for a year, would want a bit more than "a funny feeling" in order to conduct an enquiry.

                        And of course, the death probably WAS simply TB and this is just my imagination running riot! (Again)

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          I don't think you need read anything into the "No PM" except that there was no post mortem. Looking through my collection of death certs, I have "Cerebral Haemorrhage No PM" on one from 1931, and (1) Mumps (2) Acute Bronchitis No PM on one from 1920 - I think it was just normal at that time to put PM or no PM on the cert.
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                          • #14
                            I agree with Kite. My grandmother died of TB aged 22 in 1923 and her death certificate also says No PM.

                            Jane

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                            • #15
                              No, I don't think it's suspicious. Like Paul, I have death certs saying "no p.m." - if the person had had TB for a year, then the PM wouldn't be necessary. If there was the slightest suspicion about the death, the coroner would have ordered a PM.

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                              • #16
                                Some of us are just naturally suspicious, lol!
                                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks all


                                  Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                                  Some of us are just naturally suspicious, lol!
                                  And thanks Nell!! - LOL!!! :D
                                  Last edited by Muggins in Sussex; 09-08-08, 17:40.
                                  Joan died in July 2020.

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