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  • Wills & Probate

    Hi All,
    I'm sure that I could 'google' and find tons of information but there's nothing better than an answer from someone who has already been through or had a similar experience in what I am seeking an answer to.

    I've just visited the local Probate Office to look for 3 'wills' all in the last 6 to 25 years. I have the death certificates for all 3 people so have the details required. In fact it was quite easy to search the Probate Register as you entered the name and date of death into their PC, (or select the search 4 years around a given year) and a list of names with their addresses and date of death would be shown on the screen.

    Nothing came up for any of the people I was searching for which is quite a disappointment as I was hoping that this would give me valuable information on other family members.

    Speaking to the Clerk, I asked if all 'wills' made it to Probate. No he said. Some 'wills' for as little as £200 would go to Probate and some say under £20,000 in the Estate may never go to Probate.

    So how do you know if anyone made a 'will' if it never went to Probate. How would you ever know that the wishes of the deceased have been met.

    I've never had to deal with anyone's 'will' so it's unknown territory to me.

    I'd be interested in your thoughts.
    Thanks
    Paul

  • #2
    Who would be the likely beneficiary of the presumed will maker?

    If there was a surviving spouse, then I think a small estate could be easily transferred into their name.

    Having been an executor a couple of times, things are much easier if there is a surviving spouse.

    HMRC will start to get excited if they think they are entitled to a cut.

    If someone owned their own house and had no partner, it would be necessary to obtain administration to deal with their affairs. But an awful lot of people don't have stocks & shares, insurance policies etc and a family member could sort things out informally.
    Phoenix - with charred feathers
    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Phoenix,
      I would certainly agree with the first two points you make but wouldn't the 4th point have to go to Probate to request the Administration Rights. The final point, 'sort things out informally' may be the method used in this case and is the reason for my posting this question.

      Many thanks
      Paul

      Comment


      • #4
        This is the official site:


        There is a leaflet: PA5, which I can't get to load, but should explain things in everyday English.
        Phoenix - with charred feathers
        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello Phoenix,
          Thanks for the link. It's up the creek at the moment but hopefully should be sorted out within the next fews days at which time I'll take a peek.
          Many thanks
          Paul

          Comment


          • #6
            Are you absolutely sure that a will was drawn up? Even today many people die intestate, despite the fact they may have a house worth several hundreds of thousands of pounds. Very few of my ancestors left wills. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much they own, or how much money they have. I have one who left a will leaving his £33 to the workhouse master in 1921, and no will for another ancestor who was supposed to have several thousand by 1932.

            Janet

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            • #7
              Hi Janet,
              The death occurred in the late 1980's. I have no idea if a 'will' was ever made which is why I visited the Probate Office. The husband of the individual had died several years earlier but had made a will, a copy of which I found via the Probate Office.

              I am now trying to establish if a 'will' was ever made but don't know how I'm ever going to find out.


              Many thanks
              Paul

              Comment


              • #8
                Did you look at the National Probate Calendar? That shows both probates (where there was a will) and administrations (where the testator died intestate).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is there anywhere that I can go to actually look at Wills that ancestors made? I have seen the indexes at Birmingham Library but wondered where I can access the actual wills?

                  George
                  Proud to be connected to Elizabeth (Marjorie) Griffin, one of over 100,000 British Home Children sent from United Kingdom to Canada & Australia to begin a new life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pre-1858 PCC wills can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50:

                    The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Wills

                    Birmingham Record Office probably has local wills, as do Warwick and Lichfield.

                    For wills and administrations after 1858, you can look at the National Probate Calendar in major probate registries and a few record offices. The Calendar gives brief details; if you find a will on it, you can send off to York for a copy for £5.

                    As you're interested in Warks, have a look here to see if there's anyone you're interested in:

                    Genealogy, Family History, Trepess, Research, Warwickshire, Hungary, Hungary Real Estate, Hungary Property, Industrial

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Mary,
                      No I didn't. I didnt know about this. Would the National Probate Calendar be available for viewing at local Probate Centre's or do I have to apply to the main Probate Office?
                      Thanks for your suggestion.
                      Bye
                      Paul

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I haven't actually viewed the Calendar myself, but kind people have done look-ups for me occasionally.

                        This is what the Wiki (FTF's reference library) says about it:

                        The index has been microfilmed from 1858 up to 1943, and microfiches or microfilm of these years are available to view in many record offices and in some probate offices (not all years may be covered in any particular office). Some offices also have bound volumes for at least some of the years after 1943.
                        Wills and Probate - Family Tree Forum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Paul, I don't think record offices are likely to have the year that you want, only probate offices, but I'm a bit confused as you say you have already searched for it at the probate office - surely whatever they had on their computer would be the same as what is on the National Probate Calendar?
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wills & Probate

                            Hi Mary,
                            I've just come across this on the Probate site

                            Publications - Guidance - Probate

                            HMCS

                            Does a grant issue to every estate?

                            No. In some cases the executors or administrators can release all the assets in the estate without needing to obtain a grant of representation. This applies to most small estates (i.e. where the deceased left less than £5000) and often to estates where all the assets were in joint names. If no grant has issued we do not hold any details of that estate and therefore cannot provide you with any details.

                            I read this as meaning that a 'Letter of Administration' would be required if no will was made and the assets exceeded £5000. It does say that if there were joint accounts then there should not be a problem on showing the death certificate.

                            As an example, I recently discovered that an uncle of mine died several years ago aged 65. He did not appear on the National Probate Calendar when I checked yesterday as I was hoping to find new family members if named in his will. His death certificate indicates he died in hospital and the informant was a hospital representative. The address given looks like it was a bedsit. He was not married so I puzzle as to what happened to his personal possessions and any pension or annuity he may have had? He did have living relatives but it seems they have all drifted apart even though they only lived several miles from each other. Even more tragic was that his brother died only a month earlier. Would this mean that his assets were less then the £5000 so disappear into thin air or are they held by someone who needs to find his living relatives so do not appear on the National Probate Calendar until they are found?
                            Families!!

                            Paul

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Kiterunner,
                              You are correct. I was confused thinking there was a difference between the Probate Calendar & the National Probate Calendar. The search was carried out at a local HMCS Office so no Will, Grant or Letter of Administration had been issued for any of the names I was looking for. The records were all computerised and easy to check.
                              Many thanks
                              Paul

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm no great expert on all this, but if there is an estate and no relatives can be found, the estate's dealt with by the Bona Vacantia department of the Treasury.

                                I have a case like this in my tree: the Official Solicitor advertised for relatives in the Times exactly a year after the death, eventually one came forward, and probate was granted about 4 years after the death.

                                The Bona Vacantia site is here (not sure if they list details of all unclaimed estates, or only the most recent ones):

                                Welcome to Bona Vacantia

                                The Estates Group within the Bona Vacantia Division of the Treasury Solicitor deals with persons who die without leaving a will or any entitled kin. ...

                                The Treasury Solicitor only deals with solvent estates leaving a net balance of £500 or above.
                                ...

                                In most cases the claim will become statute barred 12 years after the date that the administration of the estate is substantially completed. The Treasury Solicitor operates a discretionary policy whereby claims may be admitted up to 30 years from the date of death.
                                Last edited by Mary from Italy; 09-08-08, 14:07.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hello Mary,
                                  The Bona Vacantia list appears to be limited to the last 2 or 3 years. The names of interest do not appear within the list which is not surprising since they died a little longer than 3 years ago.
                                  Many thanks for all your pointers as I think I am getting a better understanding of the procedures.
                                  Please everyone "Make your will"
                                  Thanks
                                  Paul

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I've got a similar case to paul's. My mum's uncle lost contact with his family & I recently found out that he died in 1997, in a nursing home. The death cert & funeral directors give no indication of any family, so we are assuming he was unmarried. Unfortunately there is no trace of any will or Admon either, so we may never know.

                                    I expect if he'd been in the nursing home for a while (he was 87 & had Parkinsons) there'd be nothing left anyway, but we would have liked some clues about the missing 40 years.
                                    Vicky

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi Vicky,
                                      It's a minefield isn't it. Just where do you start!!
                                      My Uncle's Estate if any, would probably never trickle down to me because he did have a lot of brothers and sisters and most had quite a few children who now have children. But when I was in touch with a distant relative they did not even know he had died. I've never known him as he appeared during the building of my family tree.

                                      Paul
                                      Last edited by Paul Wright; 09-08-08, 20:04.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hi Paul, I'm sure if your uncle had left anything in a will that was due to you, you would have heard. And if he was intestate and left a decent amount then one of the heir-hunting firms would have found you by now.
                                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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