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A Presbyterian marriage certificate query

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  • A Presbyterian marriage certificate query

    The certificate is dated 1918 and the couple were married "according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Presbyterians" by "Certificate".

    2 questions please -

    1. Am I right to assume that no banns, or anything equivalent, would be have been called?

    2. If so, might the couple have decided to marry in a Presbyterian Church to avoid any prior publicity of the marriage?

    Thanks

    Hope that makes sense - Am getting inceasingly muddled!!
    Last edited by Muggins in Sussex; 05-08-08, 20:07.
    Joan died in July 2020.

  • #2
    No banns would have been read, because that is something that only happens in the C of E. The certificate would have been issued by the registrar - did a registrar sign the cert? That would usually be the case where the officiating minister wasn't licenced (not sure that is the right word?) to perform marriages.

    I don't know about the couple marrying in the Presbyterian church to avoid publicity. I know these days lots of churches will marry people who are not churchgoers, but I don't know if this would have happened in the same way in 1918?

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    • #3
      If it says married with the rites & ceremonies of the Presbytarian church, then I'd assume they - or one of them - was a Presbytarian. To avoid publicity they could marry in a register office, or by licence, which was the quickest and quietest method.

      To marry in a Presbytarian church they would have to inform the Registrar so that he could attend.
      Last edited by Little Nell; 05-08-08, 20:30.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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      • #4
        Mery, the certificate was signed by a Minister and by a registrar.
        Joan died in July 2020.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Muggins in Sussex View Post
          Mery, the certificate was signed by a Minister and by a registrar.
          The registrar would have attended to make the marriage legal. As Nell says, the registrar's cert would have been issued three weeks before the wedding and I think the details of the forthcoming marriages are posted on a noticeboard in the register office.

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          • #6
            Thanks Merry and Nell - it's just that I've never come across any hint of Presbyterianism on either side of this family before, and bearing in mind who the bride and groom were, I think my brain was working overtime!
            Joan died in July 2020.

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            • #7
              To marry in a nonconformist church which the Presbyterian Church is, notification has to be given to the registrar in both the districts where the couple live. Once they have got a certificate, that's where the 'by certificate' bit comes from, a Minister, if they are authorised by the Registrar General to perform marriages in that district can marry the couple. If the minister is not authorised he or she has to have the registrar or an Authorise Person present to witness the marriage and sign the marriage certificate.

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              • #8
                Thank you Lizzie

                That helps a lot

                Cheers
                Joan died in July 2020.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                  To marry in a Presbytarian church they would have to inform the Registrar so that he could attend.
                  Not quite correct. If the church has a certificate for solemnisation of marriages, it has its own register. In that case, the registrar would only have to attend if the minister wasn't licensed to perform marriages at that church.

                  It's usually only small chapels which rarely see a wedding that don't bother to be registered for marriages.
                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lizzy View Post
                    To marry in a nonconformist church which the Presbyterian Church is, notification has to be given to the registrar in both the districts where the couple live. Once they have got a certificate, that's where the 'by certificate' bit comes from, a Minister, if they are authorised by the Registrar General to perform marriages in that district can marry the couple. If the minister is not authorised he or she has to have the registrar or an Authorise Person present to witness the marriage and sign the marriage certificate.
                    I married in a Church of Scotland church. My wife was a member there so she had the banns read. I was living in England so I had to get a registrar's certificate.
                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the correction, UJ.

                      I wasn't sure when that came into being.

                      so what does your marriage cert say UJ, by banns or by certificate?
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                      • #12
                        Oo-err, don't know. I'll have to dig it out. Now what did I file it under?
                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                        • #13
                          "after publication & Banns according to the forms of the Church of Scotland". And why did we need 2 copies?
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                          • #14
                            How posh "after publication". I've never seen that on an English cert. We have Rites & Ceremonies and Scotland has Forms, eh?

                            You live and learn.

                            Why did you need two copies? His and hers I suppose.
                            ~ with love from Little Nell~
                            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                            • #15
                              No idea. Must have been a BOGOF. And how have we managed to keep 2 original certs for 41+ years without losing them? The minister was a close friend of my wife's family.
                              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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