Do you want a real challenge?

[Kit]

Dad asked me to research Jeremiah Firmin for a friend of his. I have very little information. He was a convict and transported to NSW, Australia.

He was convicted of 'Breaking and Entering the house of John Stern of Hengreave' and stealing £14.0.0.' (This from the National Archives.)

Hengreave is a town in Suffolk, and there was a branch of the Firmins there at about this time, including Jeremiah Firmin, born about 1800.

From ancestry:

Name: Jeremiah Firmin
Vessel: Mary
Convicted Date: 31 Mar 1821
Voyage Date: 28 Aug 1821
Colony: New South Wales
Piece: HO 11/4
Place of Conviction: Suffolk
County of Conviction: Suffolk

Firmin - Ancestry.com.au

From NSW State Records:
FIRMIN, Jeremiah. Per "Mary", 1822

1822 Jan 28
On list of convicts landed from the "Mary" and forwarded to Bringelly for distribution (Reel 6008; 4/3504A p.359)

I can't find him on the NSW 1828 Census, nor NSW or QLD BDM records.

If anyone feels like searching I'd appreciate it.

I have contacted 2 people on GR who have a Jeremiah Firmin born 1802 but haven't heard back yet.

[Harrys mum]

There are a few Firmins on the AVRI, but no Jeremiah.

[Kit]

thanks Libby.

I don't know what to make of this guy. Most convicts leave a trail.

I thought I'd be able to knock up a rough tree for my Dad's friend quite quickly but I can't find one piece of info.

[Harrys mum]

How did you get back to him, Kit?

[Kit]

I haven't Libby. Dad's friend found him, he must be somehow related to Jeremiah, but not directly and wants to follow up this line. There are apparently relatives who now live in Australia and he wants to say something along the lines of guess what, you weren't the first of the family to go to Australia.

[Mary from Italy]

Strange. He's not in the NSW State Records or SAG indexes of tickets of leave and pardons either.

[Kit]

Mary it is strange. Thanks for looking.

[Mary from Italy]

He would have been entitled to a conditional pardon in 1837 as he got life. As there's no sign of him, presumably either he died and it isn't indexed, or he absconded and changed his name.

[Kit]

That's an idea Mary. If he died it may not have made it onto the new indexes. My 4 greats grandma is on the original microfiche but not on the online indexes. It didn't bother me as I'd found her grave but in this case it's annoying.

I'll get Dad to go to the LDS and have a look to see if that's the case.

[Harrys mum]

I didn't find him on the "absconded list" either. There are some Firmins on the AVRI, not sure if they would be related.

I have a couple of rellies who are not on the online NSW index, but one has her gg grandmothers marriage cert, from the church.

[dicole]

Hi Libby and Kat

I have been looking at this problem, and have come to the conclusion that Jeremiah must not have lived long enough in NSW to receive his ticket or certificate of freedom. He did not make any of the musters or census, did not marry or have any children baptised in NSW.

I did find this death registration (which would be just a burial record) and wondered if it might be Jeremiah.

V18225356 2B/1822 FERNAN JEREMIAH AGE 24

This makes his age a bit different from the 1802 birth for those who have him on GR, but if they got his surname wrong, it might only be a guess of his age.

The early church registers have been microfilmed and you can look at the actual burial record. Vol 2B indicates at Church of England burial and 5356 the page or record number.

Would you like me to look and see if it was at Bringelly ? Bringelly was out west from Liverpool and a remote area in 1822.

The burial record won't tell you what he died of or any family information, only that he was buried, of course. But it might tell us if he was the convict Jeremiah Firmin.


Diane

[Kit]

Hi Diane that could well be him. Convicts records are pretty good so he shouldn't have just disappeared. If it isn't too much trouble it would be great if you could look it up. If you are making a special trip though let me know and I'll get Dad to go investigating.

PS your trip to Beijing sounds great. What events are you planning on seeing?

[dicole]

Hi Kit

No, I won't make a special trip, there are a couple of things I need to check as well, and the library is only a few minutes away. Will try to get there on Tues or Wed (Mon would have been ideal, as my 6 year old goes to dancing with her friends, but its my turn to take the gang this week)

In Beijing we are booked into one session of Swimming heats (including Grant Hacketts 1500metres), one athletics session, indoor cycling and volleyball. I think its a great pity we won't get to see the Aussies on the hockey field. Apparently tickets are very hard to get. Included in our prize is a trip to the Great Wall, and probably some other sightseeing too.

Its getting very exciting, but I am biting my nails at the moment as I have misplaced one of my travel documents. I know it will turn up if I stop fretting about it, but...........


Diane.

[Jessbowbag]

christened 17 FEB 1802 Flempton Cum Hengrave, Suffolk, England

son of William & Martha

Submitted though
also a james
Christening: 19 JAN 1817
same parents - William & Martha

actually there are quite a few - have a look

Firmin, Suffolk, England, British Isles
Father: William

Batch Number: 7626402

[Kit]

Thanks very much Diane for the lookup. And I'm sure you'll find the documents before you leave.

Thanks Jess. I think Dad's friend has that part sorted, it was the Australian bit that he wanted help with. Although if Diane is right there isn't much Aussie to find. lol

[Mary from Italy]

That death looks very promising, Diane.

Libby, are there any lists of absconders online, or do you have to go to the State Records office or library to look them up?

[Harrys mum]

Mary....they are all over the place. It's a lucky dip. I've found a few by googling the name and "convict".
This is my favourite site...but you have to wander around it a bit.

Convicts To Australia ... Links

[Mary from Italy]

Thanks, Libby - I did know that site, but I hadn't noticed there were any absconders lists on it.

[dicole]

Hi

I finally found this information in the Colonial Secretarys Correspondence (1788-1825), in the returns of births, deaths and marriages given quarterly for each district. (Microfilm reel no 6025)

Date of death 20 Mar 1822, Jeremiah Ferman, age 24, prisoner per the ship "Mary", died of Dysentry, buried at Liverpool.

Sorry to be so long in posting the answer

Diane

[Mary from Italy]

Oh, well done, Diane - that most be him, as it's the right ship.